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Thread: Testing JayCar MKII phoenix - is there an easy way?

  1. #21
    Senior Member z80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyesee View Post
    ... where in PLi do you find "don't open serial" ... in gemini its easy to find but with Pli ... sorry ... I'm lost for this one

    Pli is a shit image... IMHO.


    there ya go...I've finally said it.....



  • #22
    Member sdrambo's Avatar
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    The ocx files they have to be registered dont they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdrambo View Post
    The ocx files they have to be registered dont they?
    Yep so run

    regsvr32 \windows\system32\xxxx

    xxxx being the ocx file name you want to register

    needs to be done for all of them

    so you would have

    regsvr32 \windows\system32\Comdlg32.ocx

    regsvr32 \windows\system32\MSCOMCTL.OCX

    regsvr32 \windows\system32\mscomm32.ocx

    regsvr32 \windows\system32\RICHTX32.OCX

    regsvr32 \windows\system32\tabctl32.ocx

  • #24
    Senior Member gw1's Avatar
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    Your Jaycar MK II settings are correct: Jumpers set to 6MHz & Phoenix, mode switch IN.

    The fact that your Dream software displays your card's ATR correctly indicates its port settings are correct
    (type=phoenix, mhz=600, parity=none, reset=normal)
    It also tells you that the "don't open serial" option isn't the problem.

    It looks like your Phoenix can receive data from the card but cannot successfully write commands to it.
    Nine times out of ten that scenario means you need to apply the schottky diode modification:
    • Locate the 4.7K resistor adjacent to IC3 & 220nF capacitor
    • Desolder and remove it
    • Replace it by a schottky diode ( or ) with cathode (banded end) towards the capacitor.


    Try again with that mod in place and there's a good chance it'll get past the ATR and begin handshaking with the card.

    good luck
    -gw


    Further information:

    Cards with even moderate internal pullups on I/O will be unable to hear transmission from unmodified Jaycar Mk II Phoenix. The problem tends to manifest on some cards but not others, depending on the strength of pullup the card presents to the I/O line. The best solution is the schottky diode fix, but reducing the value of 4K7 resistor will also work.

    If you refer to the Jaycar Mk II schematic you'll see that the card I/O line is sensed by MAX232 input pin 11. In Phoenix mode the only driver of the I/O line is the card itself and the PC's TxD data output (IC2 pin 12) via a 4K7 resistor. When the interface is idle IC2 pin 12 is logic 1 (RS232 TXD=-12V) and the card sees +5V on its I/O line with 4K7 impedance. Following reset the card writes its ATR string out to the host by driving the I/O line strongly down to ground, at a speed depending on the clock (9600 baud for Irdeto cards clocked at 6MHz). Since you've been receiving the ATR we know that's working fine; the problem comes with transmission.

    When the PC writes an ISO7816 command it sends RS232 TXD=+12V, driving IC2 pin 12 low. Most phoenix interfaces use a (or gate arrangement) to pull the card's I/O pin low at this point but Jaycar's Mk II interface just uses the 4K7 resistor, consequently the output low voltage isn't 0V but rather Vlow = 5.0 * 4700 / (4700 + Rio) where Rio is the pullup provided by the card. (I'm ignoring the MAX232's internal pullup on pin 11 since it's very high.) Many cards leave the pullup resistor to the host and have only weak internal pullups of perhaps 50-500K, in which case Vlow < 0.4V and everything is fine. But if the card provides an internal pullup of say 10K then Vlow only falls to 1.6V and the card won't see the transmission at all.

    AFAIK credit for identifying the bug and presenting the schottky diode fix belongs to muddy024 and nexus.

    In some diagrams the schottky mod appears together with an additional 27K pullup from I/O to +5V. That was insurance to cover the possibility of a card having very high pullup or none at all, which could lead to inadequate I/O rise time when schottky mod was fitted. I've not yet seen a case where the 27K was needed though, so most people needn't bother with it.

    See also
    Last edited by gw1; 07-04-08 at 07:09 PM. Reason: added background for 27K pullup

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    nice explanation GW1 is this the one you are talking about



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    ... gw1 - your brilliant explanation makes total sense ... THANK YOU!

    ... I was going to do the schottky diode mod when building the JayCar MKII ... but many membrs here said that the standard board works fine with gamma and DM's ... so I though why 'hack' a nice looking freashly made MKII with mods when in my configuration all should be well

    ... no problem I will indeed do the mod and see how it goes

    ... whilst on this subject ... do you have any clue as to why the internal DM500s card reader is a 'no-go' with gamma cards - but ok with NDS??

    ... I thought it might be possible to devise a mod for the DM to work with gamma .. this would make a neat little 'box' without the need for any external card readers


    ... any ideas ... or is this a 'can of worms' best not to touch ?

    Thanks again gw1

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    ... some feedback on gw1's suggestion for the schottky diode mod ...

    ... did the mod and checked the MKII with GWM and clock set at 6MHz and a working gamma ...

    ... GWM configured for the card (RS232) returns valid ATR and has valid 'traffic' with the card ... I can only assume that the MKII is working ...

    BTW ... same was the case without the schottky diode mod

    .. so if the MKII is able to read the gamma whilst connected via RS232 to GWM - with and without - the schottky diode mod ... surely this implies that in this instance the gamma used does not have any problems with the internal pullups and responds correcty with the RS232 (MAX232) logic levels ...

    ... this then points the 'finger' to the DM ...

    ... there are several options with regard to the DM500s ...

    1. I have miss-configured the settings in my image
    2. The configuration is OK - but the serial port is disabled on the DM - hence no data from card
    3. The DM has a 'faulty' serial port

    In response to the above ...

    1. The image is 100% ok (one of Z's working images)
    2. The serial port with PLi image has no 'enable / disable' settings. When booting DM - I can see red LED on MKII flickering - indicating data moving from serial ... but is it then disabled? possibly ...
    3. The DM could have a faulty serial port ... fortunately (thank's toor) I have been able to get another DM to check and it also has same symptoms ... so can conlcude its not a faulty serial port - the two DM were from diferent batches ... it would be highly unlikely for BOTH DM's to have faulty serial ports

    ... so on the basis of the above ... I can only conclude that option 2 is the most probable cause of the problem ...

    What do you think?

    Of cause I could be a in setting something

  • #28
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    cant believe you still cant get it going... lol

    on boot it's normal to see the phoenix flicker 2/3 times then you wont see anything unless it starts reading the card.

    login to the DM via telnet and check to see if newcs is actually running

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    ... what are you doing up so late?

    ... newcs is running - I've even restrted it several times from the web GUI

    ... yep ... I still am puzzled as to why its refusing to see the 'card'

    ... I suspect that the serial port must be disabled when running the emu ... with the PLi image ?

    ... will have a go with a 'working' GP image tomorrow ( eh.. today) when I wake up - I might have another to get this going ...

    BTW .. PM me so I can arrange that Pizza we discused

    Cheers toor

  • #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyesee View Post
    ... some feedback on gw1's suggestion for the schottky diode mod ...

    ... did the mod and checked the MKII with GWM and clock set at 6MHz and a working gamma ...

    ... GWM configured for the card (RS232) returns valid ATR and has valid 'traffic' with the card ... I can only assume that the MKII is working ...

    BTW ... same was the case without the schottky diode mod
    My gamma worked on a Jaycar Mk11 attached to a DM without the schottky diode mod but I did the mod just for the hell of it.

  • #31
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    Hey guys...

    I was just testing the voltage on my MKII....

    The manual (from Siliconchip.com.au) states Pins 7 - 14 should have around 5V....however on mine is both 2.5V....is that a problem ???

    All other voltages appear to be the same as in the "manual"....

    But I'm wondering if this could cause any problems with reading/writing I'm currently having...

    Any help greatly appreciated..
    Kilmo

  • #32
    Senior Member gw1's Avatar
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    Hillbilly experienced strange voltages like that, which we discussed . If you follow that thread you'll see the cause was a broken track at the 78L05 regulator. The broken track problem is described .

    If that's not your problem then try the troubleshooting guide .
    Last edited by gw1; 02-10-09 at 06:42 PM.

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