Cheap EBay DVR review

[SystemRat]

I've had an old AVtech AVC760 four channel for many years which has worked well but the captured image quality is bloody awful anyway EBay have these units listed for AU $230.00 including postage.





I did not expect great things but was willing to risk it for the price. I placed the order and the unit arrived by DHL four days later from China. I fitted a 1.5 GB SATA hard drive and fired it up and so far I am very impressed with it.

The quality of the unit is very good, there is a large manual written in real English and the image quality is very, very good. I've had it running now for over a week and not found any bugs in the system.

The only thing it lacks is a viewer program the only interface is the web based one which works very well but if using externally requires at least two ports opened to the internet one for the web traffic and one for command traffic. It also supports most mobile phones for viewing also.

Comes with a remote control, mouse and port for a computer monitor in addition to the BNC video out. Also has an audio input on each of the eight channels.

The power supply has a C tick and a lot of other approvals on it.

Anyway if your after a good unit cheap have a look at this unit.

[sPuDd]

Would I be right in thinking that unit is only capable of CIF per channel (352x288)?
In other words its a low resolution unit.

Most of those don't come with a viewer app on disk because it is assumed you will visit a nominated website/URL/IP to access the DVR and will do so from any PC/smart phone etc. Saves having to carry & install software.

sPuDd..

[SystemRat]

The encoding method is H.264 and the resolution is selectable from CIF, Half D1 and D1. The online an recorded display is very clear.

[intelliGEORGE]

Don't believe the hype.

Sure it can record at D1 but at what cost? The unit records at a frame rate of 100fps GLOBALLY @ CIF resolution. Divide this by 4ch and we now have 25fps recording rate at the LOWEST resolution. In order to achieve D1 resolution we now need to sacrifice frame rate. D1 will only record at a maximum of 6fps per channel.

However, this unit suits the market well. The false sense of security market that is.

[downunderdan]

A friend of mine (for whom I wouldn't do work given our relationship) asked me if I could look over a quote he'd been given.

The person who gave the quote had been given a chance to match or beat a previous quote. He said "the DVR in the [first quote] is not as feature rich as the one we are proposing".

He then specified something like a "Model DVR-PQX 9000 Pro" or thereabouts.

Having never heard of it, and in the absence of a manufacturer name, I typed it into Google. The Google search page which came back was entirely Asian characters and pictures of presumably that DVR featured alongside hidden webcams, waving kitten dolls and LED keyrings.

I have no problem with people selling cheap/nasty gear as long as that's what the client expects. But it's pretty funny when someone offers a competitive offer to the effect "our piece of shitty crap is better than that piece of shitty crap".

A race to the bottom, it seems.

The cameras weren't the worst I've ever seen, but I do cringe at 'CCTV installers' who specify a varifocal bullet camera (with LED illumination natch) for indoors, outdoors, upstairs, downstairs and everywhere in between.

At best, it's 16 or more cameras due for replacement in 2-4 years when the LEDs die. At worst, they will lose a battle with a cricket bat, very quickly.

But at least the DVR can be viewed from teh internets...

[SystemRat]

I think you're missing the operative word "cheap" in the review description. Most units I've seen for sale with eight channels are going for greater than $800. Most well over $1000. For this application I have trouble justifying that sort of expense. I really don't care how many images per second it records provide these images are of good clarity which they are.

Out of curiosity what price would I expect to pay as a retail customer for an eight channel unit deemed good.

[sPuDd]

Out of curiosity what price would I expect to pay as a retail customer for an eight channel unit deemed good.

Pacom $1200 -> $1400 retail
However in Pacom's defence, the bottom of the line Pacom cannot be compared to an eGay unsupported product.

sPuDd..

[downunderdan]

It's hard when people don't know what a 'good picture' actually means.

I've seen too many recordings after an incident, when the recovered imagery showed a man, what he was wearing and what time he arrived and departed.

The picture quality was insufficient to provide any useful forensic information, such as their face, a number plate, distinctive markings etc.

In other words, it really only showed them what they already knew - that at xx o'clock, a man turned up and did yyy.

The imagery would also be easily dismissed in any prosecutory efforts.

In other words, people learned the hard way, the problems with cheap gear. It's worse however when ostensibly legitimate camera installers are putting in cheap systems with a huge mark-up on them, for what remains a cheap system.

Additionally, most people's training tends to be in how to wire up a DVR, possibly how to backfocus a camera and that's it. No knowledge of lens selection, camera placement or avoiding problems. Admittedly a lot of issues will become irrelevant with a move towards IP based cameras. However it is still far from a case of simply throwing a few cameras on the wall and pointing them in the right direction.

If you're interested in learning, I recommend:

[sPuDd]

Additionally, most people's training tends to be in how to wire up a DVR, possibly how to backfocus a camera and that's it. No knowledge of lens selection, camera placement or avoiding problems. Admittedly a lot of issues will become irrelevant with a move towards IP based cameras. However it is still far from a case of simply throwing a few cameras on the wall and pointing them in the right direction.

Begin Rant
It will get worse. IP cameras means arrogant IT graduates are making decisions about every aspect of CCTV. Lets not get started on the licensing factor. They think any image is great, and that IP cameras are "digital" and therefore perfect, with no idea what is involved to focus light and convert it into an electrical signal. Then when it goes pear shaped the stupid fixes come thick & fast!
End Rant

sPuDd..

[SystemRat]

Right then I see the logic. Tomorrow I am off to have the Toyota scrapped and go buy a BMW M5 to drive 1 km to the local supermarket to buy bread and milk. Why on earth would I want to spend $1400.00 when I can spend $230.00 and achieve what I want to achieve.

Yes if I spent $1400.00 I might get twice as many frames per minute but unless the roadrunner or speedy Gonzales pops by I am just fine. If I was protecting a bank or similar high risk store yes go for the overpriced gear but I am not doing that.

[officemanager]

And lets not forget some cheap things can be just good as the top end products.

[Drift]

And lets not forget some cheap things can be just good as the top end products.

Although this rule indeed applies in some circumstances I'm yet to see it apply to any fleabay system.

[sPuDd]

I agree in terms of what you want to do with the DVR. I also agree with you that the unit is cheap for what it does, due in part to time, technology & China's economic slow down.

However most of what I do requires the 25fps/ch @ D1 as specified by the customer or the law. Having said that, I still use Pacom DVR's for small business & home jobs due to the after sales support.

If the unit can do D1 resolution then it will be closer to useful than most CIF & 2CIF DVR’s for sale anywhere. It bugs me when people look at a live video image on a DVR and think that is what will play back, only to realise their assumption is wrong when they really need that footage.

sPuDd..

[downunderdan]

Systemrat, I have no problem with what you're saying. However to continue your analogy, there are vendors selling a bicycle to people who need to travel from Sydney to Perth and telling them it's a Ferrari.

Sure there is no point spending more than necessary. That's a longstanding principle of risk-management and spending $50k to protect $10k of assets is foolish. However there is a real and growing problem of a false sense of security by people who think a camera is a camera and a recorder is a recorder.

The influx of cheap gear has further confused already uneducated end-users. When combined with (at best) untrained or (at worst) unscrupulous sales people, a lot of people will get stung.

[imaz]

Alright, its Imaz again.

I've been researching these cheap cctv systems off ebay too and dont know what I'm after. I know I want something sharp, enough to identify time, colour picture so you know what the intruder is wearing and good enough night visibility. The budget I have is low hence the ebay $500 complete units. Ability to capture anything of distance of say 15-20mtrs would be good too. Installing myself should be straight forward, but I just need a recommended system for you guru's. Anything off the shelve(expensive) or wireless is a no go.

I know with displays, resolutions always important and the greater, the better. I assume it is also the case with the camera's themselves. Would you say something advertised with below good enough?

Image Sensor:-
1/4 Sharp Color CCD
Effective Pixels:-
PAL:512(H)x582(V) NTSC:512(H)x492(V)
Signal System:-
PAL/NTSC
Horizontal Resolution:-
420TV Lines
Minumum Illumination:-
0Lux(Infrared Lamps Turn on)
LED:-
24PCS
S/N Ratio:-
More than 48db
Shutter Speed:-
1/50(1/60)-1/100,000sec
Video Output:-
1.0Vp-p, 75
Power Consumption:-
DC12V, 120mA
Built-Lens:-
3.6mm/F1.6
Infraed Wave Length:-
850nm
Infraed Lamps:-
80FT
Infraed Lamps Irradiation Distance:-
Night/Day Opening/Turn off



Cheers

[SystemRat]

Not sure if you will find this of use

These have free delivery from memory.

I have one of these and it works very well I am looking at buying a few more and 1 or 2 of the hi rez ones.

You will also find a lot of cheaper cameras on that site.

My last order came a little over 1 week after ordering.



Brand New Metal Shell, 1/3 inch Sony Chip, Day and Night Infra-Red 36 LEDs, 420 TV Lines, Weatherproof and Dustproof, Security CCTV Wired CCD Color Camera with 4-9mm Zoom Lens, 60 Degree View Angle, 30M Distance Digital Signal Processing


New 1/3 Inch SONY Chip, 540TVL, 24LED Infrared Day and Night Security CCTV Wired High Resolution CCD Color Camera With AGC, ATW, BLC Function, Infrared Effective Distance 30 Meters

[imaz]

New 1/3 Inch SONY Chip, 540TVL, 24LED Infrared Day and Night Security CCTV Wired High Resolution CCD Color Camera With AGC, ATW, BLC Function, Infrared Effective Distance 30 Meters

thanks,

those camera's look interesting but they use more power than



okay, I've been reading this thread thoroughly and you need a greater fps to compensate decent frame rate over 4-8channels. The above ebay link indicates the unit to do 200fps pal. Is this "good enough". What are some of the off the shelve products do or what you pro's have installed? What are the significant spec differences.

[watchdog]

I wouldn't use anything less than 1/3" sony chipset & wouldn't go any less than 15 fps. As for the camera then it depends entirely on the situation. I've seen a $60 420 line camera give perfectly acceptable results in an indoor, well lit , short range situation.

[imaz]

I wouldn't use anything less than 1/3" sony chipset & wouldn't go any less than 15 fps. As for the camera then it depends entirely on the situation. I've seen a $60 420 line camera give perfectly acceptable results in an indoor, well lit , short range situation.

Do those LED's surrounding the lens do much for night outdoor recording?

[Andrewpv01]

indicates the unit to do 200fps pal. Is this "good enough".

That 200fps is in CIF resolution - as soon as you up the resolution you will halve the resoltion and the halve it again when you increase further ie when you go to D1 you will have 50 FPS over the 8 cameras.