IP Camera with local video output

[downunderdan]

I am responsible for camera spec at a site which is upgrading to IP video.

At the moment, one of the cameras is on the outside of a door and there is a monitor on the inside of the door to allow people to see the outside is clear before opening the door i.e. it's an electronic peephole door viewer.

The analogue camera on the outside is connected directly to the monitor and the coax then returns to the DVR via a T-piece BNC adaptor and a signal amplifier. Works a treat.

When we replace the external camera with IP, I'd prefer to avoid having to run a video output from the DVR all the way back to the monitor.

Does anyone know an easy way to achieve the same result with digital? Either an IP camera with some manner of VGA or analogue output as well as Ethernet, or a local decoder box which will do the same thing and hopefully last and last and last... Would prefer to avoid a local micro-form factor PC which seems like complete overkill. The other kludgey option is a redundant standalone camera, but it seems so inelegant.

Can't say exactly what the cameras will be, but I'm starting to think it will be a toss-up between Bosch, Arecont or Mobotix. So vendor-neutral ideas would be best. Google is returning lots of links to cheap nasty cameras, hence my post here.

Thanks.

[alarmman]

I'm pretty sure I've seen some name-brand IP cameras (Bosch, Sanyo, Panasonic) that have an analogue output on the back of the camera for local focussing and setup. Maybe check their distributors' websites?

[intelliGEORGE]

Samsung SNB-3000 (full body) SND-3080 (dome)
Ikegami 1/2" IP cameras have BNC out, we use them for entry cameras with a monitor in the vicinity of the entrance.

Most of the name brands have composite out for that specific application.

[intelliGEORGE]

Just out of curiosity. Why IP video?

[Privatteer]

Some of the Bosch ones also have a composite/analogue output.
IQeye HD1080p Series.
StarDot H.264 Vandal Resistant Dome Camera

Depending on what your headend decoder is you can possibly mix. Ie Exacq or Genetec support multiple brands of cameras.
I personally prefer the open solutions since it gives more flexibility in camera selection.
Even could go a hybrid system, ie 4channel analogue + IP.

intelliGEORGE
Price has come down a lot. If you compare say a 3MP recording to a standard cif/2cif you get with normal analogue DVR's there is a huge difference. You can have facial recognition over say 4m view rather than 1m.
Larger recording storage required is cheap these days.

Yes it has its cons, such as in general poorer night/low night vision.

[intelliGEORGE]

intelliGEORGE
Price has come down a lot. If you compare say a 3MP recording to a standard cif/2cif you get with normal analogue DVR's there is a huge difference. You can have facial recognition over say 4m view rather than 1m.
Larger recording storage required is cheap these days.

Yes it has its cons, such as in general poorer night/low night vision.

I understand it has become an economical solution. What a lot of people have not mentioned or choose not to mention when comparing analog and IP is security. The biggest flaw with IP is that it is completely dependent on a network for it to operate. If the network goes down so does the security. IP networks have a number of failures points such as hubs, switches, firewalls etc. I was a big advocate of IP until I recently had the pleasure of dealing with the clients I.T department. Before you say I should have installed the system independent to their infrastructure and believe me I tried to push for it, they made the decision to incorporate it with their LAN.

I have come across HDcctv or SDI (Serial Digital Interface). This technology has been and still is in use with broadcasting. This technology is now available to the CCTV market and has made HD video (up to 1080p) transmission over coax possible. A lot of vendors are now building cameras to work with this transmission method. The biggest advantage for me, and from a security point of view, is end-to-end transmission can still be maintained on one single line minimising the risk of downtime due to unnecessary links in the chain.

[CCTVguru]

With IP video cameras, you sometimes get a composite output but not always so what I do for a is get a digital signage display PC, which costs around $400 and bolts to the versa mount on the back of an LCD monitor of what ever size suits.
From there I can run either a web viewer of the camera or the full VMS software, depending on the license structure. This not only gives the spot but also full flexibility in displaying other cameras, sequences or salvos.

[TomaHawk]

With IP video cameras, you sometimes get a composite output but not always so what I do for a is get a digital signage display PC, which costs around $400 and bolts to the versa mount on the back of an LCD monitor of what ever size suits.
From there I can run either a web viewer of the camera or the full VMS software, depending on the license structure. This not only gives the spot but also full flexibility in displaying other cameras, sequences or salvos.

Would these work over here? If so save a few bucks

[Drift]

Would these work over here? If so save a few bucks

I think you're missing the point of this thread just a little.

[Privatteer]

Most clients I have convinced to install a segregated network. Or if not one that is 90% segregated and just using a few uplinks to single cameras/computers.
Purely on the bandwidth reasoning alone.

Otherwise vlan the ports we are using and really so far had no issues beyond the initial configuration. Have one system that's running across something like 15 sites. Each site records independently of the headend and it has worked quite well.

I agree it is a possible con depending on the skill of the IT department.

If your really concerned for a higher security site some brands like Mobotix can have a flash card installed and record at the camera for a while on uplink failure.

[downunderdan]

Thanks all for some valuable tips.

There should be enough room on a Gigabit LAN for everyone to get along. However the problem is that most security people don't know diddly about IT. Similarly, most IT people don't know a damned thing about security. So when the worlds collide, it gets ugly.

Also, most Australian IT departments aren't used to *massive* bandwidth so they can struggle a bit - often simply from assuming that their $99 Belkin POS-9000 won't become a smouldering puddle of plastic after you throw twenty streaming HD devices at it.

Unfortunately this has been the byproduct of woefully small bandwidth in this country. The typical American teenager has more bandwidth going into his bedroom, than BRW top-100 companies have going into their whole enterprise.

But configuration is also relevant and processing at the 'edge' is important. I suspect a lot of installers who traditionally set DVRs to "record everything at highest possible resolution" take a similar approach with IP video. Big mistake if the network can't handle it.

It's the difference between "data" and "information".

[CCTVguru]

Would these work over here? If so save a few bucks

I cannot give a definitive yes as it will depend on you VMS software's workstation requirement BUT in theory yes it would.

I have used for the product a $900 box that allowed 4 cameras in a quad at full 25ips 4CIF

[MegapixelMan]

Yes you can use both IQVison and also the Stardot cameras for this as they are both nice cameras depending on your budget but also you can use MESSOA HD cameras( $400-$700 ) some models are OEM via Sony and work with IP and Analogue at the same time.... They also make a CCD Chip in the 1MP and 1.3MP Range that allow for better low light compared the CMOS cameras.. If you are looking at VMS software
( professional ) and you don't need a rocket server to run then look at EXACQVISION... Well Priced work with Windows, MAC...

P.S Also MESSOA do cameras with SD CARD's for network failure up to 32GB...

Can be bought from Video Security Products ( KOBI )

Also Don't forget the forwarding Rate of the POE Switch... Very Important if you are using a few IP cameras on Network... Linksys is very good with about 37.5Mpps..

I also read about HD-SDI which is out now and seems to be a another decent option for customers...
Pro's.... Cameras are off the Network, Longer Cable runs with using RG6 cable 75ohm....
Con's.... Can't use RG59 unless very short runs ( bad luck on retro-fit analogue jobs ), Cheap cable will not be tolerated everyone learns this lesson once, OSD control is at the camera again until a OSD box is finished like in the Bosch cameras.

All in all prices are expensive but will come down with time.

Cheers
MM