Originally Posted by 8DashP
Whoa back, your Azimuth is your direction relative to True North. ie: 13.6 Degrees. Magnetic 4.2 Degrees. In other words your magnetic variation at your location is 9.4 degrees.
Your Elevation is 62.4 Degrees.
It would seem that you are being confused with terminology.
Please familiarise yourself with them.
My bad, yes I mixed my terms up. I knew in my head what I was talking about, just didn't come out right. Sorry about that.
57deg elevation, mag azimuth -3.2 deg, LNB skew 7 deg (not sure what this is, but it sounds important).
'Skew' is the rotation of the LNB.
I think the accepted principle is to mount the LNB with the connection pointing down at the 6pm position and you then 'Skew' or turn the LNB slowly to the left or right while watching a meter of some sort for the best sgnal level.
Keep the holding clamp firm enought to allow it to turn but not flop about then tighten the screws when you finished.
Some LNB's and clamps have grooves to locate the LNB at the correct distance from the dish because if you slide the LNB 'In and Out' from the dish, that can effect the signal too.
When your out and about, have a look at other dish's.
Dont be daunted if it all sounds complicated by remembering there are those who travel and take their STB and Dish on a tripod or quick mount and set it up in 5 minutes once they have stopped for the day.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say, I just dont ever remember saying it !!
Me again,
I've just spent a couple hours browsing ebay & online stores, and searching teh forum for connector info. I've got some clue now, but would like to clarify my questions here about exactly what connections I need.
Firstly, I'm not sure between crimped connectors and compression connectors. This post suggests compression connectors are no better than connectors. Some posts seem to use crimp/compression interchangeably, and I understand the tool you need to connect them is different for each type.
So, if I'm going to terminate my own cables, what connectors & tools exactly should I be looking for?
I saw some screw on connectors too, but I'm assuming the quality of those connections is poor compressed to a crimped/compressed connector?
Also, how important is waterproof for both internal and external connections? Is some self-amalgamating tape good enough to not worry if the connector itself is waterproof?
A cable stripper at least seems cheap & easy, with $2.50 ones from Hong Kong I'm assuming quite usable.
Now, as to what I need. I read it like this
1. One short cable, f-connectors on each end to go from an LNB output to a sat finder input
2. Two F-Connectors for each of the LNB outputs (or sat finder temporarily) to join to each of my internal cables
3. Two wall plates with F-connectors
Q1 - As currently have standard PAL type connectors at the wall - can they be used with adaptors, or are they incompatible with Sat systems?
Q2 - The F-type wallplates seem to have f_type connectors on the back - are they not wired directly to the cable? In which case I would need two more cable connectors to terminate the cable, to connect to the wallplates?
4. Two more F-connectors and a short RG-6 cable, to connect between the wall plates and the STB
5. Lastly, if I can't get a properly length of cable into my bedroom, due to the current cable being too short and me being too chicken to try replacing it with a longer one, are there Coax cable joiners, or do you need to terminate one with a female connector, and then add a male connector to continue it on to the joined cable?
Let me know if that all sounds right.
Thanks. Russell.
First of all Russell, God is not a woman, it only seems that way. Be a man and stand up for yourself!
As for your satellite needs:
1. Connectors: Crimped connectors tend to be better than compression, well in my honest opinion, because you can apply more pressure on the connection and make it permanently tight without the risk of it coming "undone". You will need a crimping tool that looks like a pair of pliers with a hexagonal recess:
2. All connections must be watertight. You can play it safe and use F connectors with rubber O rings, particularly in areas were storms are frequent, but in any case you must use some sort of amalgamation because if water gets into the wire your signal will suffer and it may short the circuitry. In fact, the LNB is wired directly to its power supply through the cable and voltages turn it both on-off and switch it between Vertical and Horizontal polarity. So you don't want it getting wet.
Whilst you don't need to waterproof or amalgamate internal connections (and I have been guilty of this) get into the habit of doing so for all connections. It just means that you don't have to worry about it if you move the cables or the roof leaks etc.
3. Cable Joins. Cables can be joined together with small female-female adapters.
These are very convenient for what they do, but come at a performance and technical price. The first issue is that signals are dissipated through the bare metal so you may suffer some signal loss. Secondly, contact must be ensured so if the connector gets loose or doesn't make a good connection then you may have no signal at all. having said that, I use these things, but never more than one per cable run and usually where I have access to them. If you must use them tape them down well, particularly if you put them in the roof cavity.
4.Wall plates: Use F type on all walls. It is better to put an RF-F adapter on a TV aerial cable than use an F-RF adapter on an RG6 Sat cable.
(Having said that, I always use at least RG6 Quad shield for everything)
5. Short cables. Always have at least 2 of these handy for connecting between a sat meter and an STB. However, make them different lengths. I have one that is one metre in length and another that is 2 meters, just in case I need the distance, particularly with large dishes where you don't want to be standing in front of the dish to tweak the meter.
Have I missed something?
edit: Yes, I have. The back of an F plate has a female connector that simply screws onto the cable. It is easier to install than your typical RF plate.
Cheers
OC
Last edited by Optima Collins; 10-04-11 at 04:38 PM.
beer4life (10-04-11)
G'Day Russel,
I've a Crimp tool, stripper and F6 connectors that I've had for years.
Use F6 as standard, STBs, LNBs, Sat Finder have F6 sockets.
Depends on the wall plates, you may be able to change the inserts.
You may need to go to Electrical/Electronics store for the bits and pieces.
I note e-bay items large quantity or dear post.
There are F6 female/female Joiners, so just terminate all cables with male connectors.
If you make two fly leads long enough for wall plate to STB, you can use one for the Sat Finder.
If you do no good 8Dash, my brother lives at Pittsworth and sent me the message about old dishes..
Hi xx
i have a couple of old austar dishes he can have for free ,as to where he can obtain surplus big ones tell him to try scrap metal guy's in brisbane yellow pages (on line)-also tell him to try Cambooya rubbish dump as they have them for sale about $5.00 ea.
cheers xx
Thanks Mate,
I'm catching up with Weirdo next weekend. he has some stuff fr me, so we'll see how that goes first.
That is, if you terminate the cable with a connector, not bare cable like my current PAL connection has, I assume.
I saw these on eBay . Does that look like an all-in-one solution to making a waterproof connection, or does it look like overengineering? Otherwise, this pack of would probably do me, as I need at least 8 anyway.
I wonder, is it better to have right-hand connectors for the cable into the back of the wallplate? This would avoid putting a 90deg kink in the end of the cable.
I guess I was thinking of a more permanent joiner like this but it's only a screw connection, not a crimp.
I was just up in the roof again, trying to figure an optimal layout. as it turns out, I could get both lengths to meet smack bang in the middle of my east side roof. What's the preferred method of getting the cable from the inside to the outside of a tin roof? I was originally hoping to mount to dish down near the gutter area, and slip the cables under the edge of the gutter, or under one of the ridge cap joins, to avoid the hassle of drilling through the roof, but i can't find any location like that where both cables currently meet - hence the joiner question.
If drilling through the roof is the best option, do you just seal around the hole with silicon? I'd be worried about movement in the wind causing the cable to rub against the sharp edge of the tin and wearing through. Are there some sort of rubber grommets or something you can use? Also, since we're talking about 2 cables - 1 hole or 2? Am I on the right track?
Looking at my current plates, I don't think you can change the insert. However, most places I've looked a whole new plate with f-type connector is about the same price as the inserts only anyway.
You're right about ebay postage/quantity being a differentiator for price. I'll see if I can find some local suppliers in Brissy when I'm back to work, but if it's not in the central city, or somewhere close to where I stay, I don't have shop-around time in the suburbs I'm afraid, and with the price of petrol & depreciation these days (35c/km in my little economical i30), postage costs aren't necessarily expensive when you factor in the running around.
The other PITA with Ebay is the cheap Hong Kong bits - I'm too impatient to wait 6 weeks for deliveryIt does make it like Christmas every day though, as you never know when an unexpected surprise will turn up in the mail
Yes, that's right. You will have to terminate the cable with a connector first.
Over engineering is a relative term. I use ordinary F connectors without the O rings, but I make sure that the seals are water tight. Living in "Sunny Queensland One Day, Flooded the Next" I'll leave that question up to you. Are severe storms an issue? If so, then I'd use the pre-sealed type on the LNB's. If not go with the others, ensuring you seal them properly yourself. In any case, you should buy more than you need. When you have spent the better part of the day crimping cables and setting everything up only to find that you don't have a connection because of a "bad connector", you don't want to be left out in the cold 100km from your nearest supplier ... on a Sunday afternoon.
Don't kink satellite cable. It will block the signal by having it reflect backwards and canceling out. I have never had a need to use one, but if you must, use a right-angle connector.
I wouldn't recommend that for Satellite work. Use the F barrel type instead (Which incidentally Beer correctly informed me is the Female type, not male as I had inadvertently stated earlier). Secure it and waterproof it if necessary.
Ideal solution is to drill through the eaves and pass the cable down (not up) through the bottom then pass it up along the mount to the lnb. Use cable ties to secure the cable on the mast, leaving a drip loop just under the lnb so that water flows down to the ground and not into the connection.
Don't drill through the roof unless absolutely necessary. In my opinion, you will never keep it dry for very long.
OC
Last edited by Optima Collins; 11-04-11 at 04:31 AM.
Thanks OC,
All those answers make good sense.
This last suggestion about the hookup would be my preferred way of doing it, but due to my current lengths, will mean extending one of the cables. If that's my best option, then so be it. Might have a word to my BIL who is an electrician. He may be able to help replace a whole cable so I can avoid the joins, then everything would be sweet.
Would you believe I discovered another hiccup just before. we re-arrange the lounge room last year, saying we'd never get TV, so the existing point is on the wrong wall to where we have the TV now
Whether you use the silicon-filled or plain "F" connectors, you must also thoroughly seal the connector and joint with self-amalgamating tape on all joints exposed to the weather. This will ensure that there is no later ingress of moisture. (Water will travel by capillary action along the inside of the co-axial cable causing corrosion, which will result in signal degradation).
DSE, Jaycar and others sell self-amalgamating tape. DSE sell it as catalogue number N1376.
Bends are O.K. provided they are wide radius (gradual) and not acute bends.I wonder, is it better to have right-hand connectors for the cable into the back of the wallplate? This would avoid putting a 90deg kink in the end of the cable.
The right-angle connectors are a good idea though as they enable you to avoid bends completely. Make sure that all connectors are tightened adequately using a 7/16" or 11mm open-ended spanner.
Use "F" connectors for all joins - a male connector on each end of the coaxial cables to be joined, and an "F" female to female joiner, as illustrated below.I guess I was thinking of a more permanent joiner like this but it's only a screw connection, not a crimp.
The location you select must have unobstructed line-of-sight to the satellite of interest.I was just up in the roof again, trying to figure an optimal layout. as it turns out, I could get both lengths to meet smack bang in the middle of my east side roof.
It's acceptable to drill a hole in the roof, but make sure it is on the top of a flute and slightly larger than the coaxial cable diameter in order to ensure that silicon sealant will make an effective seal. I usually use a grommet in the hole to prevent any chafing of the cable. De-burr the hole first and use sufficient sealant to seal the joint and also to ensure that the cable will not move in the wind.What's the preferred method of getting the cable from the inside to the outside of a tin roof? I was originally hoping to mount to dish down near the gutter area, and slip the cables under the edge of the gutter, or under one of the ridge cap joins, to avoid the hassle of drilling through the roof, but i can't find any location like that where both cables currently meet - hence the joiner question.
If drilling through the roof is the best option, do you just seal around the hole with silicon? I'd be worried about movement in the wind causing the cable to rub against the sharp edge of the tin and wearing through. Are there some sort of rubber grommets or something you can use? Also, since we're talking about 2 cables - 1 hole or 2? Am I on the right track?
Fit a connector to the cable after passing the cable through the hole in the roof so that the hole need be made no larger than necessary.
Make the hole near to the base of the dish mount or one of the mount braces and secure the cable to the metal using nylon cable ties. This procedure will ensure minimum cable movement due to wind.
Make a single hole for each co-axial cable.
If you decide to pass the cable under the edge of the iron at the gutter, make sure that there is sufficient clearance to prevent chafing of the cable. Do this preferably adjacent to a gutter support bracket and secure the cable to the bracket using a nylon cable tie, to ensure the cable cannot move.
Use a good quality metal roof mount such as the type illustrated below. Use the proper roofing screws and rubber sealing washers supplied and apply silicon sealant to all surfaces first, to ensure an adequate seal against dampness.
When I go 'shopping' at the local tip I look for old electrical conduit or plumbing or that garden black AG pipe because I use it for those odd jobs where you might need to encase the co-ax to protect it.
Old flexible washing machine water hoses work well and the price is unbeatable.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say
Those are the ones I had been looking at, but don't you need a pipe as a mast to add to this as well? The places that sell them don't seem to say anything about a mast to match.Use a good quality metal roof mount such as the type illustrated below. Use the proper roofing screws and rubber sealing washers supplied and apply silicon sealant to all surfaces first, to ensure an adequate seal against dampness.
I couldn't find an N1376 on the DSE online store. They have an N1395 called "waterproof gaffer tape". Is that it?
Thanks. Russell.
No, that is your mast, just long enough so that the dish rim is clear of the roof.
Gaffer tape is different. This is the Jaycar cat: NM2826.
It would seem that DSE no longer carry it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahh OK cool. The picture's did't look long enough to mount anything on. I'll be eyeballing dishes on the bus going into work tomorrow, so that should give me a bit more of a clue
Another thing that many people overlook is the rating of the F outlet/joiners.
Although they all look similar, there's a few variations of the bandwidth they are designed to handle and are colour-coded to indicate the type.
The cheaper clear/translucent ones are desiged for terrestrial signals, red are for up to 2GHz and blue for up to 3GHz.
Naturally, the blue ones are best for satellite signals (which is why you will see them on Foxtel & Austar installations).
Yes, lower-rated ones will still work ok with sat signals, but there is actually quite a difference when you measure performance between them with a spectrum analyser.
They will accommodate up to a 90cm dish without any problems.
No additional hardware is necessary.
No. Gaffer tape is precisely what the name suggests and is NOT the self-amalgamating tape I am refering to.
I saw a couple of wall plate inserts that were 2ghz and 3ghz and wondered what that meant. They were the same price though, so I didn't think it was a quality indicator.
They were both probably twice the price of the clear/translucent type though, like in the barrel joiner pic in tristen's post above.
I try to avoid using adaptors (eg: right angle adaptors) unless absolutely necessary, as every join/connection can degrade performance.
Once again, if you must use them, ensure they are satellite-rated.
Right well, I went for a trip to DSE in BRisbane at lunch time today just for a hands-on look at some stuff. That was a real letdown. No tape, no connectors, no nothing! Even their RG6 cable, they had about 30cm left on the roll, that was it. At $2.40/m anyway, not buying it there, that's for sure.
Anyone know any other places in Brisbane city that might have supplies I can look at? I'll be trying to get to Bunnings one night on my way home, but that's about the limit of my choices I think.
I found one online place that has the standard F-Connectors for 66c each, and what they call a waterproof connector, which has a brassy colour compared to the nickel, for 76c. Given I'm going to use self-amalgamating tape on all connections anyway, is it still worth going to the waterproof connectors? I'm just confused by the colour of them, as this is the only place I've seen anything that doesn't look plain nickel?
Thanks. Russell.
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