Installer can't find Intelsat701 Spot 2 Ku Band

[viewer]

Whack those numbers into your receiver and do a scan.

Is there any tree in the line of sight of the dish to the satellite?

Did the installer come inside after alignment, and do any visuals on your tv, as well as checking the parameters in your receiver's menu were set correctly?

[mtv]

Those settings would be used by the installer on his meter, but also on your decoder if they contain the channels you need.

It sounds like the signals are fluctuating which could mean a few things, such (as suggested) a tree blowing into the signal path, heavy cloud cover/moisture/rain, slight movement of the dish, ingress of moisture into connections/cables.

Difficult to determine without being there with a spectrum analyser connected.

[beer4life]

Hello Everyone,

It's me again

Just a quick update and to ask your opinion

Michell said "...best solution to get your signal from Intelsat 701 is to try 12648 H Fec/Sr 28066 3/4 first in DVB s. Is that because it's probably a strong transponder on IS-701. When Michell said to try 12648 H Fec/Sr 28066 3/4 first in DVB s, did he mean for the install tech to use this on his satellite meter/spectrum analyser, or on the Satellite Decoder in the house. Sorry for these stupid questions, but I'd like to have some information to give the install tech when I contact them again. Just some really basic steps for this newbie to understand. Also this is the first IS-701 install the installer has done.

Thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark

G'Day Mark,
it has occurred to me that you would better understand what is being said above. Use the above on your decoder.
Have a good look at this link and you will see the TP frequency and Polarity in the first column. The channels then the other criteria that was given.



I hope that this will help explain some of the mysteries.
If you click on the beam column " spot 1/2/3 " you will get another page showing the footprint for that Transponder.
Don't worry about the 4 figure transponders, you can only get the 5 figure ones on a Ku Band Dish. The Spot 2 beam is probably the only one that you can get.

Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

[Bizzibee]

Hi viewer & MTV,

Thank you very much for your replies.

To answer your questions.

Whack those numbers into your receiver and do a scan.

Is there any tree in the line of sight of the dish to the satellite?

Did the installer come inside after alignment, and do any visuals on your tv, as well as checking the parameters in your receiver's menu were set correctly?

The issue doesn't happen all the time. Just sometimes.


Thank you for explaining about those settings which Michell posted in this thread!

No there are no trees in the way. There is clear line of sight to Satellite.

Yes installer did come inside when they were finished, but at the time there were no issues. It only first happened a few minutes after they left. Also we could only get two channels at the time as the smart card wasn't activated yet.

The Pace Decoder's supplied by LBF has all the menus in French. So the install tech can't do much in there, and it's a bit hard for my Wife to workout all the options to tell installer. Regardless the Pace Decoder comes completely set-up and configured. They are just meant to be plugged in. That is how they supply them. However I've ordered a UltraPlus 900HD from Leroy. Should be here by end of week.

Those settings would be used by the installer on his meter, but also on your decoder if they contain the channels you need.

It sounds like the signals are fluctuating which could mean a few things, such (as suggested) a tree blowing into the signal path, heavy cloud cover/moisture/rain, slight movement of the dish, ingress of moisture into connections/cables.

Difficult to determine without being there with a spectrum analyser connected.

Thank you too for explaining about those settings which Michell posted in this thread!

As stated, no trees and clear line of sight to Satellite.

With regard to heavy cloud cover/moisture/rain. - No it was clear this morning, so I don't see that as an issue.

Slight movement of the dish. Well the Dish is mounted on a very heavy duty mount at cost approx. $400. It is very solid, so I don't think there would be any movement or give in it. Also no strong wind this morning when issue happened.

Ingress of moisture into connections/cables. - Well it was raining the day the installation was done last week. So I don't know. Installer did looped RG6 Cable after it leaves the LNB and heads down. So I guess that is to stop water running down inside the RG6 cable.

I asked leroy his option, and he suggested that with the sat finder in line, get behind the dish and pull the left hand side of the dish back towards me and see if the needle goes up and down. Try this for the right, top and bottom. He said it should give me an idea of which way to move your dish if it is out of alignment with IS-701. I will give that a try with the dish as soon as I get time. I don't normally get home until it almost dark from work. So it might have to wait until the weekend.

Any more suggestions or comment?

Thanks again for all your help. Sorry for asking these basic questions but I'm totally new to all this Satellite stuff.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Bizzibee]

G'Day Mark,
it has occurred to me that you would better understand what is being said above. Use the above on your decoder.
Have a good look at this link and you will see the TP frequency and Polarity in the first column. The channels then the other criteria that was given.



I hope that this will help explain some of the mysteries.
If you click on the beam column " spot 1/2/3 " you will get another page showing the footprint for that Transponder.
Don't worry about the 4 figure transponders, you can only get the 5 figure ones on a Ku Band Dish. The Spot 2 beam is probably the only one that you can get.

Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

G'Day "The Druid",

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I will certainly go and do as you have suggested. Always happy to learn new things.

Thanks again!

Kind Regards

Mark

[viewer]

Yep..Leroy's idea of moving the dish is a quick fire way to see what happens..

[LeroyPatrol]

Yep..Leroy's idea of moving the dish is a quick fire way to see what happens..

It's actually better to do it with the receiver's signal level screen than the sat finder as it's more accurate. I just use the sat finder to find the sat and the receiver to then peak the dish.

.....eLroy

[beer4life]

G'Day Mark,
I can't seem to find whether you mentioned the Model No. of your decoder.

The Pace Decoder's supplied by LBF has all the menus in French. So the install tech can't do much in there, and it's a bit hard for my Wife to workout all the options to tell installer. Regardless the Pace Decoder comes completely set-up and configured. They are just meant to be plugged in. That is how they supply them. However I've ordered a UltraPlus 900HD from Leroy. Should be here by end of week.

There seems to be confusion as to whether the box has multilingual capability and that this is causing most of your problems.
Here are the Specifications for the DS 230, an entry level decoder. I would be very surprised if all their decoders were not so capable.

Software
Supporting popular middleware options including OpenTV
and NDS Core the DS230 also offers an impressive onscreen
navigator and embedded Electronic Programme
Guide (EPG) delivering many advanced features. There is
also the possibility of upgrading the middleware or
Conditional Access (CA) with an over the air download.
• TDT clock updates over the network
• Automatic or manual channel scan
• Automatic bouquet updates
• Fast (NIT) scan and exhaustive scan
• Comprehensive banner info including current/next
programme data
• Parental lock
• Multifunction timer
• Elegant display of all broadcast EIT data
• 8 day channel guide
• PIN based channel lock
• Multilingual user interface
In addition, the navigator and guide may be augmented to
accommodate specific network requirements.

Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

[beer4life]

There are 12 languages on my Strong and similar on every box that I've seen.
Surely an installer can handle this?

[Bizzibee]

Hi "The Druid",

Mark, I can't seem to find whether you mentioned the Model No. of your decoder.

I haven't as yet. But it is a Pace DSR6231/19. The best I could find on the Pace site was the DSR6230 and DSR6240. The DSR6231 looks just like the DSR6230 and DSR6240 but that's where the similarities end I would think. See here (under High Definition):



Here is a picture of what the DSR6231/19 looks like.





No other details available as it appears to be a custom decoder for Service providers such as CanalSat and not for end user purchase. So I can't provide you with any other details sorry. I can't see anywhere in the menu system where you can change the language.

Anyway I will have the UltraPlus 900HD miCro PVR Satellite Decoder from Leroy soonish.


Again thank you for your thoughts and post.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Bizzibee]

It's actually better to do it with the receiver's signal level screen than the sat finder as it's more accurate. I just use the sat finder to find the sat and the receiver to then peak the dish.
.....eLroy

Hi Leroy,

Sorry my mistake, I thought you meant using the Sat Finder Needle Meter.

O.K. so that would be a two person exercise. One outside moving the dish, and one inside looking at the screen and watching the signal strength/quality meter from the Satellite Decoder. They would need some type of communication between them.

Thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark

[Bizzibee]

Hello All,

Riddle me this. This morning there was low rain cloud, and a bit of wind and we didn't have a single drop-out. Go figure! I really don't know what is going on with regard to the reception issues. 85-90% of the time everything is fine. It's just the other 10-15%. Is this just the norm with Satellite TV?

I emailed the install Tech (easier than phoning as they are out on jobs normally), and got this reply.

"...since you have checked the HDMI lead by using another output connection, the problem may be caused as a result of a transmission issue from the satellite or an atmospheric condition which may affect the signal. There is definately clear line of sight (no trees in the way) between the dish and satellite. Try installing the new UltraPlus decoder and see how it goes. If you still are having the problem we can come and do a fine tune alignment on the dish to make sure it is correct...."

According to the Intelsat site, IS-701's spot 2 has this coverage area.




So I'm looking at Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP) level of approx. 43.9 dBW for this part of NSW (Wagga Wagga). So according to this site:




I should have more than enough signal given my 1.2meter Azure Shine Satellite Dish (model AZ-120VT).

EIRP (dBW)_____0.6 - 0.7_______0.8 - 1.0_______1.1 - 1.3

44 dBW_________90 cm__________100 cm_________120 cm

43 dBW_________100 cm_________110 cm_________120 cm

If you drill down on this site to where Wagga Wagga is located, it say a 100cm Satellite Dish. LNB recommend a minimum of a 90cm Dish for Wagga Wagga.



So the only answer I can come up with is the dish isn't aligned correctly even if it does seem to work correctly 85-90% of the time.

Any thoughts or comments.


Thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark

[Bizzibee]

Hello again everyone,

Michell send me this link. Thanks again Michell!!



You can find both of the Satellite Decoders that CanalSat currently use on this site. That is the HD Zapper (Pace DSR6231/19) Satellite Decoder (which LBF provided me with as part of the subscription package). As well as the newer Satellite Decoder with a PVR function called the DS 08 (currently not available from LBF yet but will be soon).

You can view the manuals for both these Satellite Decodes on-line, but only in French. Once the Flash intro finishes, Click on "Materiel". Then click "Assistance Technique". Then click "Fiches Techniques", and select which Satellite Decoder manual you want to view. To view manual, click on "Manuel D'Installation...." for the required Decoder.

I thought I would provide this info just in case anyone is interested, and because other in the future might do a search on CanalSat Calédonie and/or Le Bouquet Français.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Ady_m]

Hello All,

Riddle me this. This morning there was low rain cloud, and a bit of wind and we didn't have a single drop-out. Go figure! I really don't know what is going on with regard to the reception issues. 85-90% of the time everything is fine. It's just the other 10-15%. Is this just the norm with Satellite TV?

I emailed the install Tech (easier than phoning as they are out on jobs normally), and got this reply.




According to the Intelsat site, IS-701's spot 2 has this coverage area.




So I'm looking at Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP) level of approx. 43.9 dBW for this part of NSW (Wagga Wagga). So according to this site:




I should have more than enough signal given my 1.2meter Azure Shine Satellite Dish (model AZ-120VT).

EIRP (dBW)_____0.6 - 0.7_______0.8 - 1.0_______1.1 - 1.3

44 dBW_________90 cm__________100 cm_________120 cm

43 dBW_________100 cm_________110 cm_________120 cm

If you drill down on this site to where Wagga Wagga is located, it say a 100cm Satellite Dish. LNB recommend a minimum of a 90cm Dish for Wagga Wagga.



So the only answer I can come up with is the dish isn't aligned correctly even if it does seem to work correctly 85-90% of the time.

Any thoughts or comments.


Thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark

Hi Guys...

There is something else you can try... I have experienced with a few LNB's that the quoted oscillation frequency on the label i.e., 9750/10750 etc is not perfect... even on a decent LNB they have produced drop-outs like this...

If you can adjust the LNB Oscillator settings in your receiver, try a few khz either way... 9750/10753 or 10747... you may see a dramatic change in its behaviour, you might not... have had Sky LNB's running 8 khz out!!! Some transponders on D1 would not lock at all and/or fluctuated in and out of lock..

Just a thought as it seems the dish is peaked pretty well...

Ady_m

[beer4life]

Hi Guys...

There is something else you can try... I have experienced with a few LNB's that the quoted oscillation frequency on the label i.e., 9750/10750 etc is not perfect... even on a decent LNB they have produced drop-outs like this...

If you can adjust the LNB Oscillator settings in your receiver, try a few khz either way... 9750/10753 or 10747... you may see a dramatic change in its behaviour, you might not... have had Sky LNB's running 8 khz out!!! Some transponders on D1 would not lock at all and/or fluctuated in and out of lock..

Just a thought as it seems the dish is peaked pretty well...

Ady_m

G'Day "Ady_m",
Many thanks for your input, however I cannot see that this is the explanation.
To elucidate all quoted frequencies are the central Frequency, and with PLL circuits (Phase Lock Loop) are able to automatically adjust for quite large variations. At GHz frequencies, this is several MHz.

Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

[Ady_m]

G'Day "Ady_m",
Many thanks for your input, however I cannot see that this is the explanation.
To elucidate all quoted frequencies are the central Frequency, and with PLL circuits (Phase Lock Loop) are able to automatically adjust for quite large variations. At GHz frequencies, this is several MHz.

Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

OK Mhz... I stand corrected... have had 2 freeview transponders on D1 (not that far apart on the band really) 1 locked, 1 phasing or not working at all at times.. so its STILL worth a try, it certainly wont take long and its easy to check... everyone has unique experiences and have jumped many of their own hurdles in this hobby.

[Tasman]

everyone has unique experiences and have jumped many of their own hurdles in this hobby.
Too true!

[Bizzibee]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick update. I haven't received the Ultraplus 900HD miCro PVR Satellite Decoder from Leroy yet (perhaps on Monday), so I've just had to continue using the LBF supplied Pace DSR6231/19. So trying to do anything on the Pace DSR6231/19 is difficult because all menus etc. are in French, and my French isn't that good. Jusy ask my Wife.

Anyway strange thing is we haven't had any dropouts for days (touchwood). So I'm not sure what's going on. Unless there was some strange atmospheric condition which may have been affecting the signal. Now that I've said that I beat the dropout will start again.

Thank again for all the suggestions and comments. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to do so.

I''l keep you posted an any further developments.

Kind Regards

Mark

[tristen]

Hi Guys...

There is something else you can try... I have experienced with a few LNB's that the quoted oscillation frequency on the label i.e., 9750/10750 etc is not perfect... even on a decent LNB they have produced drop-outs like this...

If you can adjust the LNB Oscillator settings in your receiver, try a few khz either way... 9750/10753 or 10747... you may see a dramatic change in its behaviour, you might not... have had Sky LNB's running 8 khz out!!! Some transponders on D1 would not lock at all and/or fluctuated in and out of lock..

Just a thought as it seems the dish is peaked pretty well...

Ady_m

I have to agree with beer4life here.

While this is very possible on a SCPC (single channel per carrier) signal due to its narrow bandwidth, it is somewhat unlikely for an MCPC (multiple channel per carrier) signal, which is what we are dealing with here.

Having said that, while I have had a number of occasions when local oscillator drift in LNB(F)'s that are some years old, have resulted in failure to lock or intermittent lock, I have never had that problem with a new LNB(F), so I think it unlikely in the case under discussion, with the proviso that the installer used a new reputable brand, LNB(F).

I would check the following ...

1/. Dish alignment - easily checked by "flexing" dish (a) from side to side (azimuth) and (b) up and down (elevation), while watching signal strength indication.

2/. LNB cross ploarisation adjustment - adjust LNB for minimum output for the wanted frequency on the opposite polarity. This is easily accomplished with a spectrum analyser, but is also relatively easy with other methods of monitoring the output.

3/. I have had several occasions in approximately 20 years, when bad cabling practice resulted in low signal on a particular frequency, i.e. extremely bad "kinks" and/or very sharp bends.

4/. It is also possible of course, that the receiver is a little "deaf" or the LNB is low in output.
All equipment is subject to manufacturing tolerances. If several items of equipment in an installation each have low sensitivity/low gain, the effect is cumulative. This can produce results as described in this thread.

I would not expect to have problems with a dish of 1.2m diameter, as in the past, I have done many installations using 90cm offset dishes for reception of CanalSat Calédonie, without encountering any problems.

On the subject of bad reception due to local inclement weather, we need to remember that bad weather at the uplink site can also result in lack of received signal. The rule is simple - rubbish up, rubbish down! This however is easily identified, as all users will simultaneously experience bad reception.

Local interference can also cause intermittent reception problems. A spectrum analyser will aid in identifying this particular problem.
Keep a log of times and conditions when you experience bad reception. Check to see if a patterm emerges.

[Bizzibee]

Hi Guys,

The Universal LNB was supplied by LBF and not by the installer. It was a Acer brand Universal LNB. I supplied the Azure Shine 1.2metre Satellite Dish. The installer just supplied the heavy duty mount and all the cabling.

I did noticed that there was a kink in the RG6 cable when I was in the roof last weekend setting mouse baits. I straightened it out.

As I said in my last post, we haven't suffered any more signal dropouts recently.

Anyway the Ultraplus 900HD miCro PVR Satellite Decoder from Leroy should be at the Post Office today. So I'll give that a whirl. But since we haven't suffered any dropouts lately, I won't know if it is/was a issue with the Pace decoder.

Thank again for your thoughts guys.

Kind Regards

Mark