Installer can't find Intelsat701 Spot 2 Ku Band

[Bizzibee]

Hi Guys,

Well I had the install technician come yesterday to install my 1.2 Satellite Dish (Azure Shine 120cm Satellite Dish, model AZ-120VT) for the French Digital Satellite TV (CanalSat Calédonie) offered by Le Bouquet Français (LBF) Australia Pty Ltd off Intelsat701 (Spot 2 Ku Band). Well to cut a long story short, he said he couldn't pick-up any Satellites using the Acer LNB that LBF sent me along with the Pace HD Satellite Decoder. So he used another LNB he had in his van and was then able to pick-up Optus C & D series Satellites as well as Intelsat 8 at 166° East etc. but still couldn't find Intelsat 701 around 180° East. I suggested they contact the installer that LBF use in Canberra to get some help because Canberra is close to Wagga Wagga.

The local Satellite guys have never done an install for Intelsat 701 as no one else has ever wanted it. Anyway they are coming back late this afternoon after another job to have another try. Bear in mind these guys are professionals with all the gear. They know about the correct LNB Skew etc and their equipment even tells them the correct LNB Skew for a given Satellilte.

Before I began this adventure, I checked the Intelsat website for the Intelsat 701 Satellite for Spot 2 in the Ku-Band (IS-701 at 180º E), and this is the footprint for said satellite. So their coverage maps verify I could get Intelsat 701 from my location. It states that the EIRP level for this area would be 43.9 dBW. See:




I verified this info here as well. See:



Given this info, I also check what Satellite Dish alignment using this site (), which calculates the Satellite Dish setup & installation parameters and LNB Skew based on your Latitude and Longitude. I entered these details (Latitude:-35.1592° N (35° 9' 33") & Longitude: 147.3563° E (147° 21' 22")) and got the following.

Azimuth angle: 48.05° (True North)

Elevation angle: 36.56°

LNB tilt (Skew):37.45°

Offset angle:23.56°

Distance to satellite:38055.57 Km

Signal delay:253.70 ms (Uplink + Downlink)

Declination angle:5.51°

Polarmount hour angle:36.88°

Satellite:Intelsat 701 (180.0° E = 180° W)

I also cross referenced it with

LBF provided these settings which were I think generic settings applicable for Newcastle, Sydney & Canberra but perhaps that need adjustment for Wagga Wagga:

Azimuth angle: 32º North East,
Elevation angle 40º ± 2º.

Anyway I'm a bit surprise that I find myself in this position. If in the end they still can't locate Intelsat 701, what other options do I have for French news etc.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Kind Regards

Mark

[mtv]

Mark,

A few points to clarify.

Did the installer use a universal LNB and set up the decoder and his test gear 22kHz tone switching for it?

Any other type of LNB (eg 10700/11300) won't tune low enough.

Did the installer have a satellite meter/spectrum analyser capable of receiving/measuring DVB-S2 signals, which CanalSat use? (eg: not standard DVB-S which most Optus sats have that he received).

If his test gear doesn't do DVB-S2, then it won't find the signal and if the dish/LNB isn't aligned correctly to begin with, then the decoder won't find it either.

Given the installer hasn't done IS701 installations previously, it's likely he has overlooked one or more of the above.

[CONAXLE]

Yeah! either that or use a MPeg4 box with a small LCD TV.I know I had trouble finding I701 long ago,but once you got the hang of it,its there.A 1.2m dish should give you lots of signal gain.

[Bizzibee]

Thanks Guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The LNB that LBF sent was definately a universal LNB. When I quizzed the Tech about the replacement LNB used, he said it was a universal LNB, but I only have his word for it. He said something about needing the change something in the Pace Decoder to work with the replacement LNB because of the working frequency. But since the Pace Decoder menu i all in French, he had to ask my Wife what the menu said. But he couldn't work out how to do it. I'm surprised he needed to change anything in the Pace Decoder because it comes completely set-up with all the channels already set-up. You just basically plug it in and it works once that activate the Smart Card via the Satellite.

These are the complete Technical details LBF provided to the installer are:

For Sydney, Newcastle, Canberra area, LBF requires for a correct signal reception a 90Cm off Set Dish with a universal LNBF Dual polarization and using two local oscillators Frequency (LO).

1. Working frequency: 11700 MHz to 12750 MHz
2. LO High: 10600 MHz, LO Low 9750 MHz.
3. Figure of around 0.5 to 1Db.
4. Polarization horizontal (18v) and 22 KHz tone switch off.

There are three KU band carriers (Transponder) from this Satellite that LBF is using to broadcast this package.

TRANSPONDER_FREQUENCY__IF FREQUENCY__POLAR____FEC__SYMBOL RATE__TONE 22KHz

CAL 1_______11610 MHz___1860 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___45000_________Off

FTV_________11174 MHz___1424 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___23150_________Off

CAL2________10995 MHz___1245 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___45000_________Off

As I said they have had no experience with the Intelsat 701 Satellite or the services provided on said Satellite. But I'm assuming from the information about that was provided to them they would know what they need to do. I will pass on to them the following:

Any other type of LNB (eg 10700/11300) won't tune low enough.

Set-up the decoder and his test gear 22kHz tone switching.

Ask if his satellite meter/spectrum analyser is capable of receiving/measuring DVB-S2 signals, which CanalSat use? Not standard DVB-S which most Optus satellite that he would installs have.

Tell him that if his test gear doesn't do DVB-S2, then it won't find the signal and if the dish/LNB isn't aligned correctly to begin with, then the decoder won't find it either.

Hopefully this should go somewhere to helping resolve this issue. My sincerely thanks and appreciation for you help and comments/suggestions.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Bizzibee]

Thanks Guys for your help! All is good now!!!! Armed with the info you provided, the installer got his bosses newer meter/spectrum analyser equipment and was able to get the Intelsat 701 Satellite.

Many thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark

[weirdo]

Maybe their first speccie couldn't handle the 45000 SR?

[LeroyPatrol]

That may of been the issue!

Just for the record I can get i701 on an 85cm in NE Vic for others wishing to try and get this sat.

Leroy

[viewer]

Simple enough to find from in North Eastern NSW....nothing worthwhile to see on it though, without a smartcard.

[Bizzibee]

Well my French speaking Wife is loving the French TV. I tried to get LBF to activate the Smart Card this afternoon. But we still can't access all the channels. Oh well, it should all be working tomorrow.....I hope!

Getting signal dropouts even with the 1.2m Satellite Dish. They said got the did the best signal they could. If the dropouts continue, I will get them back.

I can see that you can buy a Aston Simba Satellite Decoder for $497.00 from Noumea with the Viaccess smart card that has life time validity according to this thread:



But I don't know what channels you get access to. Perhaps exactly the same as I'm paying $49per for. Oh well!

I might look into getting one of those Ultraplus 900HD micro PVR. It seems like they will work with the CanalSat Calédonie service without any problems. I guess it's just a case of putting the Smart Card from the Pace HD Decoder and into the Ultraplus 900HD.

Anyway again my sincere thank for all you help guys. Oh and the LNB that LBF sent wasn't faulty. I guess this installer will know how to do an install for the CanalSat Calédonie service here if anyone else wants it.

Cheers!

Mark

[michell]

G'Day Mark,

The best solution to get your signal from Intelsat 701 is to try 12648 H Fec/Sr
28066 3/4 first in DVB s.

This Pace decoder is notorious for his tuner which is not very sensitive and irritating to set.

You should consider the other solution, DTV from France on 11174 H on the same satellite; you have 10 TV stations and half a dozen radios and more to come.
I ordered the Aston Simba decoder with the Viaccess smart card, but I use the Ultra plus bought from Leroy several months ago and I am very pleased with it.

Please contact me if you need more help.

M

[Bizzibee]

Hi Michell,

Thank you for your suggestions and comments. It appears that I'm not out of the woods yet with the installation. LBF said they have activated my smartcard, but I can only access 2-3 channels such as France 24 & TV5 Monde, so I'm nor sure if the Tech hasn't aligned the Sate Dish or LNB correctly for all three Transponder frequencies as given in the table below:

TRANSPONDER_FREQUENCY__IF FREQUENCY__POLAR____FEC__SYMBOL RATE__TONE 22KHz

CAL 1_______11610 MHz___1860 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___45000_________Off

FTV_________11174 MHz___1424 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___23150_________Off

CAL2________10995 MHz___1245 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___45000_________Off


I'm not sure which channels are on what Transponders. I've asked LBF to give me this info, or at least give me a few per Transponder for CAL1, FTV & CAL2. That way I will know if I'm getting channels on each of the three Transponders.

Also on the channels that we do get, the screen periodically just goes black for a few seconds, and then comes back to normal. Like it blinks. If it was a lack of signal, wouldn't the picture just break-up, rather than going black. It might be a quirk with the Pace box, but I'm only guessing. However if the Dish isn't aligned correctly then this might be the reason. Who knows....Not me that is for sure.

There appears to be a signal meter (a number of little grey boxes ), displayed briefly after you select a channel. I can see perhaps 4-5 of these boxes filled with yellow on the channels I can see. On the channels that don't display, there are no yellow boxes filled, only grey boxes which indicates to me that the Satellite Decoder isn't receiving a signal. But I'm only guessing. Is there a channel on the same transponder as the channels I am getting (France 24 & TV5 Monde) which would indicate that the Smart Cards is activated? I don't know what I looking for but I need to be able to tell the install tech that I think there is still a problem so I do need some information for this.

Yes I would like to get one of the Ultraplus 900HD micro PVR from Leroy. Would I be able to take the Smart Card out of the Pace box, and place it into the Ultraplus 900HD micro PVR without any issues and have it work after what you guys call a blind scan? I don't know much about Satellite Decoders etc. It's my first venture into this area and I know it shows.

Buying the Aston Simba decoder with the Viaccess smart card will be something I look at when my contract with LBF expires in 12 months. Do you have access to all the Channels that Viaccess smart card I will eventually have access to, or do people in Calédonie only have a free basic service, and they have to pay extra for the Canal movie channels etc. All I know is what I've read on the LBF site. I don't know what the people in Calédonie have access to. I know that LBF have two packages. A $49per month for the Premimum package, and $39per for the basic package. See:



Anyway any suggestions or comments would be welcomed.

Kind Regards

Mark

P.S. since I'm a complete newbie at this Satellite stuff, I didn't really understand what you meant when you said:

"...The best solution to get your signal from Intelsat 701 is to try 12648 H Fec/Sr
28066 3/4 first in DVB s..."

[Kavakid]

If you are using a 9750/10600 LNB it is a universal type and definitely requires that the 22khz be switched on all the time or the LNB will not switch between 9750 and 10600 (it's a bandswitch)

[Bizzibee]

Kavakid,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm a bit confused. The Technical info supplied by LBF, say Tone 22Khz off. See below:

TRANSPONDER_FREQUENCY__IF FREQUENCY__POLAR____FEC__SYMBOL RATE__TONE 22KHz

CAL 1_______11610 MHz___1860 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___45000_________Off

FTV_________11174 MHz___1424 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___23150_________Off

CAL2________10995 MHz___1245 MHz______H-18v_____3/4___45000_________Off

Is that only during the install set-up phrase, and then it's turned back on.

Michell has told me to get my installer to set the Pace box on this transponder (Frequency :12648 H Fec/Sr 28066 3/4), he should get this on his spectrum analyzer. Then fine tune, elevation, azimuth and skew and not to forget to switch on the 22 kHz. I will pas on this information to the install tech. I really wished I was up on all this stuff. Thanks for this info Michell.

If I've got any of this wrong let me know.

Thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark

[beer4life]

If you are using a 9750/10600 LNB it is a universal type and definitely requires that the 22khz be switched on all the time or the LNB will not switch between 9750 and 10600 (it's a bandswitch)

Sorry Cobber, that is incorrect.

[Kavakid]

A Universal LNB requires a 22kHz signal to switch its Local Oscillator to 10.6GHz ("high band"). Otherwise it uses its 9.75GHz oscillator ("low band")

Works in 2 bands 10.7-11.8 and 11.6 - 12.7 GHz. (22 kHz signal switched)

So if you want to watch a channel with a frequency between 10.700 MHZ and 11.800MHZ the LNB uses the 9750 oscillator and if you change channel to a higher frequency like 12,648MHZ, the 22khz tone kicks in automatically and switches to the 10600 oscillator.

SO if you don't enable the 22khz in the settings you will never be able to receive frequencies above 11.800MHZ, it will be limited to the lower band and you will not see 12,648 for example.

[beer4life]

A Universal LNB requires a 22kHz signal to switch its Local Oscillator to 10.6GHz ("high band"). Otherwise it uses its 9.75GHz oscillator ("low band")

Works in 2 bands 10.7-11.8 and 11.6 - 12.7 GHz. (22 kHz signal switched)

So if you want to watch a channel with a frequency between 10.700 MHZ and 11.800MHZ the LNB uses the 9750 oscillator and if you change channel to a higher frequency like 12,648MHZ, the 22khz tone kicks in automatically and switches to the 10600 oscillator.

SO if you don't enable the 22khz in the settings you will never be able to receive frequencies above 11.800MHZ, it will be limited to the lower band and you will not see 12,648 for example.

G'Day Cobber,
Instead of becoming involved in an interminable argument, may I refer you to this thread where this was thrashed out.
Tone on/off and tone burst are for different uses and can be used together.

NB:

Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

PS: Also covered in many other threads on this forum.

[Bizzibee]

Hi Guys,

Well the issue appeared to be caused by the fact that the Smart Card Activation didn't work correctly. They tried again (third time), and this time we have all the channels we are ment to have. So it's all good!

Thank again for all the help. It is very much appreciated.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Kavakid]

I'm not arguing, I'm amused by your unhelpful attitude, technical ineptitude and worthless post.

[Bizzibee]

O.K. all is good as I mentioned yesterday. We have access to all the channels that we are meant to have with LBF's Premium Package. They are:

Video Channels:

1 - TF1
11 - Calendonie 1ere S
16 - France O
19 - Wallis 1ere SAT
21 - LC1
22 - 1TELE
24 - France 24
27 - Sport+/L'Equip
28 - InfoSport
31 - RTL9
35 - TV5MONDE
36 - TF6
37 - TMC
41 - Planete
42 - Planete THALASSA
43 - Voyage
45 - Cuisine TV
47 - Histoire
63 - Cinema Emotion
65 - Action
66 - TCM
72 - Gulli
81 - MCM Top
82 - MCM Pop
83 - Trace Urban

Radio Channel:

101 - Europe 1
102 - France Info
103 - RFM
104 - Jazz Radio
105 - Radio N Caledoni
106 - Radio Wallis
107 - Le Mouv
108 - France Inter
109 - France Monde
110 - France Culture
111 - Radio O

I think that when my 12 month contract ends with LBF, I might purchase myself one of the Aston Simba boxes will the permanent validity on the included viaccess card. Michell has told me you get access to these channels with that viaccess card:

Calédonie Première
Wallis Première
France2
France 3
France 4
France 5
France 0
Arte
2 extras channels from French Polynesia and Caledonian (FTA-Feeds)
24 News channel called France 24
And several radios from Paris
France Inter
France info (News)
France Culture
Radio Calédonie

One other question which I would appreciate someone answering if you can. If I purchased a Ultraplus 900HD micro PVR from Leroy. Would I be able to take the Smart Card out of the Pace box, and place it into the Ultraplus 900HD micro PVR without any issues. I'm not that impressed with the supplied Pace Box and would love to have the PVR function.

Anyway it's all good. This is my first venture with Satellite TV.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Kind Regards

Mark

[Bizzibee]

Hello Everyone,

It's me again

Just a quick update and to ask your opinion.

We are still experiencing those signal drop-outs and digital pixelation. I thought the issue might be something to do with the HDMI connection between the Pace Decoder and Panasonic Plasma, so I changed the connection between the Pace Satellite Decoder and Panasonic Plasma from HDMI to composite using the supplied SCART to Composite Video and L & R Audio converter cable. Problem still occurs, but this time the "Problem with Reception...." message appears. So the issue is definitely related to signal strength/signal quality.

I purchased one of those Sat Finder Needle Meter that you see on eBay.

__________________________________________________ _____________
Basic Meter

Perfect for KU Alignment for self install or Caravaning the meter is simply plugged in near the satellite dish and follow the needle movements.

When ordered on the internet price includes short patch cable, this will allow you to put in between the Dish and Satellite Receiver

Specs

Freq Range: 1.0-12.75ghz

Operating Voltage: 13-18v

Made in China
__________________________________________________ _______________

I used the attenuation knob to set the needle at the mid point (sitting at 5 on a scale 1-10) and watch what happened. When I lost Satellite reception, and the "Problem with Reception....." message appears in French, the needle starts bouncing around and then moves back approx. a full increment to 4. That seems like a big drop to me. Then it will eventually start bouncing around again and move back to 5 and the Satellite reception comes good again.

What are you thoughts. With 120cm Satellite Dish, I would have thought I should have heaps of signal. Do you think that the install Tech hasn't done the alignment of the dish correctly? Well it seems like that is the best answer, but they did say they got the best signal they could.

Michell said "...best solution to get your signal from Intelsat 701 is to try 12648 H Fec/Sr 28066 3/4 first in DVB s. Is that because it's probably a strong transponder on IS-701. When Michell said to try 12648 H Fec/Sr 28066 3/4 first in DVB s, did he mean for the install tech to use this on his satellite meter/spectrum analyser, or on the Satellite Decoder in the house. Sorry for these stupid questions, but I'd like to have some information to give the install tech when I contact them again. Just some really basic steps for this newbie to understand. Also this is the first IS-701 install the installer has done.

Thanks!

Kind Regards

Mark