Sat setup - cannot get a signal

[8DashP]

Hey All,

Well I finally got all my connections setup, holes in the roof, dish & LNB aligned & sat finder hooked up. But no matter what I do, I'm still getting no signal. If anyone can point me in direction to troubleshoot from where I am, I'd greatly appreciate it.

So, my setup :-

1. I have a 70cm dish that i got from Wierdo.

2. I have a new Sharp Dual LNB

3. I have 2 completely separate cable runs in the house - one to the bedroom, one to the loungeroom. The only thing in common is the LNB and the dish.

4. The cables from the wall to the LNB were installed when our house was built. They were standard terrestrial antenna sockets, which I pulled the inserts out of the wallplate and replaced with F-Connector adaptor inserts.

5. I self terminated both ends of both of these runs with F-Connectors

6. The cable from the bedroom socket to the STB is a factory made one I had already.

7. The box in the bedroom in is an old Visionet unit that Weirdo gave me

8. The cable from the loungeroom socket to the STB is cable I purchased and self-terminated each end.

9. The box in the loungeroom is a new UEC VAST box.

10. I have a spare single 11300 LNB that Weirdo also gave me (generous, isn't he )

11. I have a new cheapy sat finder from China, the standard analogue ones with the dB knob.

12. I used Dishpointer.com to give me the alignment. I have good line of sight, so can line up the azimuth by eye with the direction Dishpoint says pretty close I reckon.

13. The elevation is 57 degrees, so I have the scale on the dish set halfway between 55 and 60 degrees

14. The LNB setting is supposed to be 7 degrees turned to the right, when looking behind. The Sharp LNB has marks which make it pretty easy to see this (half way between 5 and 10) the other LNB needs to be eyeballed.

OK so this is what's happening.

1. On the Visionet box, it sometimes shows signal strength from 70 - 90, but quality flatlines at 20. Doing any searches always returns a "no signal" response.

2. Turning on the UEC box starts it's scan, but never finds anything

3. I swapped the wall<->STB cables in the bedroom & loungeroom with no difference

4. I swapped the Dual LNB with the Single LNB with no difference

5. I took the Sat finder out of the loop with no difference.

6. How slowly do you need to rotate the dish to make adjustments? With the sat finder on, I swung the dish about 15 degrees each side of the recommended direction. I changed the elevation up to the max of about 65 that the dish goes, down to about 30. I tried the LNB skew both left and right in case I was reading that wrong.

7. I checked the :NB settings on both STB's and they are correct (10700 for the Sharp, 11300 when i tried the other)

So that's where I'm at. No signal no matter what I do.

I've replaced every part of the line except the dish with alternates, and nothing has changed. The only other adjustment I could make is the direction the dish is pointing, but unless it's that sensitive you only need to be off my a degree or 2, or there is some long period of time I have to wait after every adjustment to see if I'm getting a signal. I'm at a loss.

So any help would be appreciated before I call on Obi Wan Kenobi as my only hope...

Thanks. Russell.

[viewer]

I would use the visionnet to start with.
It will need these settings entered
30000 2/3 12407 V
Make sure your lnb matches the same in the lnb menu
This is Aurora on C1 and has a colour bars test page
The movements in the dish have to be minute...a tinyfraction left / right, a tad up/down
Every time you move it..allow about five seconds to see if the stb wants to tune the signal.

VAST is harder to set up initially than Aurora, and when you have Aurora, try the VAST one, again making sure your lnb and menu match each other...VAST automatically enters into the load procedure when on satellite, as long as lnb is right, and dish on target

[8DashP]

I would use the visionnet to start with.
It will need these settings entered
30000 2/3 12407 V
Make sure your lnb matches the same in the lnb menu
This is Aurora on C1 and has a colour bars test page
The movements in the dish have to be minute...a tinyfraction left / right, a tad up/down
Every time you move it..allow about five seconds to see if the stb wants to tune the signal.

VAST is harder to set up initially than Aurora, and when you have Aurora, try the VAST one, again making sure your lnb and menu match each other...VAST automatically enters into the load procedure when on satellite, as long as lnb is right, and dish on target

I'll give that a try tomorrow. Just had to pull all my gear off the roof as the brass monkeys are asking if they can go home, plus I didn't want any of the gear to start getting damp. Is it safe to plug & unplug the LNB/Sat finder while it's getting power from the STB? Climbing up and down the ladder all the time is getting old.

[OSIRUS]

It can be good if you could have a TV near your dish as you fine tune its direction, & LNB position

Enter the settings Viewer mentioned, & then watch the Signal Strength & Signal Quality bars from the STB, (then, tweak for maximum signal),

Signal Quality needs to be good,

By the way your satellite finder needs to have the knob adjusted just before the point the needle kicks to the right,

then when you move your dish onto a Satellite the needle then kicks to the right, you then know your on a satellite, (just a Satellite, you may or may not be Optus C1)

When you have Signal Strength & Signal Quality good do a scan & see if & what channels you get

Yeah.... I would not be trying to tune the Vast STB until you have the other STB working OK (it can also be a temperamental STB, & don't want to damage it)

[8DashP]

By the way your satellite finder needs to have the knob adjusted just before the point the needle kicks to the right,

then when you move your dish onto a Satellite the needle then kicks to the right, you then know your on a satellite, (just a Satellite, you may or may not be Optus C1)

I generally had the gain knob all the way up, but it never moved from 0. Are you saying I should able to adjust it to move away from 0 without being on any Sats?

Is there any way to check power is coming up the cable from the STB in the first place? Given I've got 2 runs and neither worked though, I dont think this is the problem, unless my connections are all rubbish that is.

[viewer]

I don't have a sat finder, but used that type for my neighbour last week, and got C1 pretty simply.

I noted how the needle moved, and set it up so it just started to move..I'd be guessing, but at about 1/2 way.

When I found the sat, I then adjusted it back, and peaked the needle to the highest point by up/down and left / right and then ran a scan to see if I had it...just gotta watch out you don't get D2, as there is a transponder the same on there...you will know though, as both have the test card sayoing what sat it is.

My finder is similar to yours, goes in line, has an ear piece, and you wait til it screams at your ear hole!

I agree with other poster, it is far easier to haul up a tv and sat receiver with the use of a long extension chord, and attach a small lead between the lnb and the sat receiver, and do everything from up top....you will save yourself hours of up/down ladders.

[viewer]

If the sat finder did not light up with it's internal lamp, then you have no power coming up your line from the stb

[OSIRUS]

Been a while since I used mine...

But when it has power, mine has a light on in the meter display (seen better at night)

Yes, I think I adjusted the knob up to at lest 2 or more before the needle kicks to right by itself,

so I then turn the knob back a fraction (just before it starts to kick to the right)

also mine has sound that goes off when you are on a satellite, (the needle kicks to the right)

Edit: of course you will not be able to get the needle to move when you are on a satellite ,

[Fernbay]

Hook up meter correct way around.
Get meter just beeping with knob.
Move dish around so beep gets louder
Turn down loud beep
Bump dish around so as beep gets louder
When gain knob is turned down anticlockwise and you can not make the beep any louder then your on a sat.

Have you had a look at your address from yet ?

[viewer]

If we keep up this level of response, and he gets up in the morning, posting his problems, we should have him up n going before lunch...well done fellas

[8DashP]

Hook up meter correct way around.
Get meter just beeping with knob.
Move dish around so beep gets louder
Turn down loud beep
Bump dish around so as beep gets louder
When gain knob is turned down anticlockwise and you can not make the beep any louder then your on a sat.

Have you had a look at your address from yet ?

Yep I used Dishpointer.com. Mentioned that somewhere in my first post.

I'm beginning to wonder though, whether I am getting power back up the line. I didn't see any light, but it was in the sun, and definitely no sounds coming from the meter. I did wonder whether the meter connections are marked the right way. It says "to LNB" on the left, and "to REC" on the right, which kind of looks backwards to my way of thinking. Would that be correct?

What happens if you reverse it - any chance it'll damage?

Also, should I try just plugging the finder straight into the STB, to see if there's a problem with my wall connections or something maybe?

[viewer]

Yes, try it now inside the house with a small patch lead between your receiver and the wall socket...it should light up

[Fernbay]

The power to light up the globe & make the beep comes from the STB.
If you look at the back of the sat finder, you should see marked "LNB REC"

One goes to LNB, the other side goes to RECEIVER

[8DashP]

Yes, try it now inside the house with a small patch lead between your receiver and the wall socket...it should light up

Ok we might be onto something here. I just did that with one of my crimped cables, the sat receiver cable and the factory cable I have. They all bussed their little heads off. No way I could have missed that beeping when I was on the roof. I also tried one on the wall side of the wall socket too, in case the connector was the problem, but it worked as well.

So that means I either screwed up the connectors on both cables from the sockets to the dish, or both of those cables are faulty in some way. Neither of these ideas seems very palatable. I can understand 1 connection being had it somewhere, but both? Given my fresh cable I crimped, which was the first one I was experimenting on even, has worked OK, what's the chances I'd screw up the other two?

I'll go up on the roof again tomorrow and check the sat finder without connecting to the LNB, on both cables, just to rule out anything screwy with the LNB connection, but then that will mean I'll have to redo a whole cable through the wall and roof to track down the problem any further, won't it?

Russell.

[viewer]

I'll put my money on your f connectors......make sure none of the braiding / shielding is in contact with the centre core whilst your at it.

Keep going !!

[viewer]

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[8DashP]

I'll put my money on your f connectors......make sure none of the braiding / shielding is in contact with the centre core whilst your at it.

Keep going !!

Alright, let's explore that option.

What are the failure points in a connector? I was under the impression that the only working part is the centre wire. As long as it is poking out far enough, but not too far, and doesn't push in while being connector, then everything else is just a support mechanism for the connector, isn't it?

I know the connectors were secure on the cables as the cable didn't move back or forth after it was crimped, but not squashed in too far that they deformed the core. The cores were also clean and took care to pull all the strands back over the sheath before putting the connector on. As mentioned in my other thread though, the connectors were quite hard to push onto the cable. Apart from bunching up the shielding between the cable sheath and the core, at the end of the connector, which shouldn't stop it working (should it?) could that have done any other damage?

So if that's all correct, that would make the only failure point the length of the core exposed. How critical is that? I did make one I remember quite short - about 1mm, but the specs I read said 1 - 3 mm is what you aim for.

Does it matter where the inner core, which just has the 1 layer of foil left on it, ends up being located within the connector? I tried to get it aligned level with the inner base of the connector. It doesn't matter whether that foil shielding touches the bottom of the connector or not, does it?

So what would your approach be. Cut off and replace 1 connector at a time and test after each replacement? I have 8 spares, and it'd use 4 to redo each cable, leave enough for 1 more shot, or to redo the cables as well, but it seems a bit of a crap shoot as to whether it'll work or not. I also only have enough coax to replace 1 run of cable, not both, so that's my last resort to redo the whole thing.

Appreciate the help you guys are providing. It's helped narrow down the problem at least, so I won't be spending ages trying to align to a satellite when there's no power getting through.

Thanks. Russell.

[8DashP]

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Well mine looked similar, although not exactly the same. I used one of those stripping tools you twirl around, so it gives a need, measured length of centre core, then white sheathing covered in 1 layer of foil and 1 layer of strands, and I fold those strands back over the outer black sheath, then push the connector over the inner white sheath & foil, and all the rest goes between that inner connector sleeve and the outer sleeve that gets crimped. I'll try and post some pics if needed tomorrow when I can get some light on the roof.

[mudcrab]

8DashP, keep at it, you'll get there I think most of us here have been up on the roof in the near dark, or ummm even rain, the neighbors think you are totally insane etc etc.

You need some patience, and the good advice other's have posted, all of a sudden it will just click into place and all make sense, before you know it you'll be setting up your moteck or C band dish LOL.

[viewer]

Well....your explanation of how you made the connection appears pretty good, and being crimped type connectors, your losing each time you try and possibly fail...that can't be good with a short supply.

I would leave your cabling how it is for the moment.

Tomorrow, I would explore EVERY POSSIBLE WAY of getting your gear on the roof with you ( receiver, telly and everything) and connect those good cables to the lnb, then onto the sat finder, then onto the receiver, with receiver tuned to those previous numbers.

You can then find the satellite, lock everything down on the dish, and then work on your cables.

Get it going up there, and then work back through your cables.

I will also punt that there is nothing wrong with the cables anywhere....just the connectors.

Go one step at a time.

Tomorrow you will be fresh again.