Feed in Tariff to be slashed retrospectively.

[Lomax]

How can this be legal? I'm screwed.....

[admin]

You have the information right in front of you and you say I have my eyes closed ! you have yourself replied with a misleading obfuscation that you don't appear to understand. , I suggest you research the difference between Gross and Net feed in tariffs and the prices offered everywhere else before you jump on factual information.

As I said based on facts NSW is the ONLY state that offered the 60cents GROSS tariff with a system size of up to 10KW, every single KW the customer makes they are paid 60cents , Absolutely unsustainable!!
At a 20cent Gross tariff NSW will get a return very close to that of other states when the difference between Gross and Net are calculated.


The next closest is Vic with a 60cent NET tariff which is a shit load different to Gross , it means in Vic you only get paid for the excess you make after your usage but you are only allowed a more realistic 5KW system.

Yep , the majority of people have no idea of the difference between gross and net tariffs and capped output size. There is a very big difference between NSW and Vic's schemes but people see 60 cents and think they are exactly the same.

[bambbbam]

Oh boo hoo. The taxpayer will be paying your system in 3 years instead of 2.

[PVbeliever]

Can I see a class action happening ??

How about this for action.

We all turn our solar grid systems off until they go back to the agreed payback tariff.

Ok so you loose a few dollar over a few weeks. Imagine what the power's to be will loose. They will have to build a new power station.

If we all do this it will solve the problem. No letters to write, just throw a switch.

[disolusionedpvowner]

How about this for action.

We all turn our solar grid systems off until they go back to the agreed payback tariff.

Ok so you loose a few dollar over a few weeks. Imagine what the power's to be will loose. They will have to build a new power station.

If we all do this it will solve the problem. No letters to write, just throw a switch.

Count me in!!!! we have to respond to this in such away that the message is clear I for one will never participate in a government sponsered system again if this is implemented.

[admin]

Latest government information is here




I am surprised there hasnt been mention of legal class action for those affected ? It sounds like one the lawyers would love. You have effectively signed a contract to supply a service and get paid X amount per kw.....the government is breaking the contract.

[gordon_s1942]

If you think this would bother a Government, you have High Hopes indeed.
'They' couldnt care less, one of many reasons is that they are there for the long Term.
A Government can sit you out irrespesctive of the party in Power (PUN)
Two/ it isnt costing them a cent and they can then cry to Joe Public sitting in the dark because there is insufficent power available that your being lousy or vindictive, please yourself which.
Depending which way the NSW Libs decide to go re Solar/Power Station/Transmission sell off's, a NEW addition to MT Piper in the Central West is approved and awaiting the go ahead.
The paper work and foundations for this addition were done when the current station was built so it could come ON LINE much sooner than it would be if it was starting from scratch.
Governments write the rules and read and apply them and there is nothing than cannot be changed if the need arises.

[disolusionedpvowner]

If you think this would bother a Government, you have High Hopes indeed.
'They' couldnt care less, one of many reasons is that they are there for the long Term.
A Government can sit you out irrespesctive of the party in Power (PUN)
Two/ it isnt costing them a cent and they can then cry to Joe Public sitting in the dark because there is insufficent power available that your being lousy or vindictive, please yourself which.
Depending which way the NSW Libs decide to go re Solar/Power Station/Transmission sell off's, a NEW addition to MT Piper in the Central West is approved and awaiting the go ahead.
The paper work and foundations for this addition were done when the current station was built so it could come ON LINE much sooner than it would be if it was starting from scratch.
Governments write the rules and read and apply them and there is nothing than cannot be changed if the need arises.

Looks like a class action!!!

Count me in!!!!

Keep in mind if electricity doubles over the next couple of years it will be close to 40CPKWH then those of us that are coming up to retirement age that have borrowed or spent retirement money preparing will be dead before we recover our outlay. I should have invested the money and used the earnings to pay the electricity bill, food and warmth before clean power!!!!

[MalleyFowl]

Looks like a class action!!!
I should have invested the money and used the earnings to pay the electricity bill, food and warmth before clean power!!!!

Ahh!, the getting of wisdom.

[Joey]

How about this for action.

We all turn our solar grid systems off until they go back to the agreed payback tariff.

Ok so you loose a few dollar over a few weeks. Imagine what the power's to be will loose. They will have to build a new power station.

If we all do this it will solve the problem. No letters to write, just throw a switch.

What a great idea! at night during peak demand they are really going to wish they hadn't screwed those poor PV owners!
Even better I think anyone who complains or is involved in any type of class action should forfeit the thousands of dollars they were given to install their systems , I mean some poor buggers had to fork out a massive $1200 out of their own pockets to have a $10,000 PV system installed.

I'll never trust anyone who gives me thousands of dollars worth of anything again , I'll sue the bastards !

[bambbbam]

I'm mixed on this decision to be honest.

I don't like the idea of the government signing a contract with you, then simply changing the rules by force of parliament.

But then again as a taxpayer (and a voter), I completely understand the incoming government trying to financially escape the idiotic decisions of the previous abomination of a government.

If they are only taking it back to what the second most generous state is paying, I personally feel that is a fair compromise.

[gordon_s1942]

Exactly bambbbam, where is that fine line between what started as a great idea and then it collapsed into a tangled mess and now everyone looks like paying the bill.
There is so much misinformation circulating by everyone with the slightest vested interest to muddy the waters to the extent no one will ever work it out.
As a kid I remember the slogans of the 50's and 60's to 'Living Better Electricaly' which was pushed to get people to purchase appliances on the premise of having cheaper and cheaper electricity to run them.
People responded by buying more and more appliances only to face the prospect today of being unable to afford electricity even for the most minimal basic requirements.

We're 'Saving the Planet' all right, by getting rid of the population !!!

[Lomax]

I only purchased my system on the basis of a "guaranteed" 60 cent per kW. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that the Govt could/would simply break the contract and tell me "too bad lol". In the private sector this is know as "fraud".

This is also affecting me on a fundamental moral level. I'm not sure that I can/am willing to exist in a society where this can happen. My own government ripping me off so blatantly! A government is supposed to care for its people!

[bambbbam]

My own government ripping me off so blatantly!

You could argue that *you ripping them off* has just been taken off the table, and they are now paying you fairly.

Your costs are still going be recovered, just over a longer period.

[disolusionedpvowner]

You could argue that *you ripping them off* has just been taken off the table, and they are now paying you fairly.

Your costs are still going be recovered, just over a longer period.

The individual house holder has accepted a deal offered by a state government and we are ripping them off, COME ON!

i.e. a 3kw system $10,000 dollars based on information available on generating capacity, the cost of money I calculated a ROI of 19% with a pay back period of 5.2 years. these figures in business would be considered low and I suggest the state government was aware of this also because at the end of the day this was a state government business decision.

This achieved the equivalent of a 300 MW power station and I would suggest at a much lower cost than to build a 300 MW power station from scratch while using other peoples land (roof space) with no ongoing maintainance costs for the generating capacity or land and building maintaunace costs and no generator replacement costs.

I would suggest that those that are on the side lines thinking that some how they are subsidising those that have taken the initative to put PV on their roof should think again as I would say we have saved you money as generating capacity has been run down by state governments and urgently requires correcting and for this we are now being penalised.

[disolusionedpvowner]

The individual house holder has accepted a deal offered by a state government and we are ripping them off, COME ON!

i.e. a 3kw system $10,000 dollars based on information available on generating capacity, the cost of money I calculated a ROI of 19% with a pay back period of 5.2 years. these figures in business would be considered low and I suggest the state government was aware of this also because at the end of the day this was a state government business decision.

This achieved the equivalent of a 300 MW power station and I would suggest at a much lower cost than to build a 300 MW power station from scratch while using other peoples land (roof space) with no ongoing maintainance costs for the generating capacity or land and building maintaunace costs and no generator replacement costs.
I would suggest that those that are on the side lines thinking that some how they are subsidising those that have taken the initative to put PV on their roof should think again as I would say we have saved you money as generating capacity has been run down by state governments and urgently requires correcting and for this we are now being penalised.

Some more figures for thought!

These are guestimated figures however they paint a conclusive picture.

State government achieved 300MW (300,000000 watts) of generating capacity at say an average of 8KW (8000 watts) generating capacity per houshold based on a 2kw system.

300000000watts/8000watts = 37500 instalations times an average install cost of $5500 = $206,225,000

Cost to build a 300MW power station = $1000,000,000 per


Saving to NSW tax payer = $793,775,000

Note this $1000,000,000 does not include running and maintainance costs

WHO'S ROBBING WHO!

[MalleyFowl]

One of the most efficient gas-fired baseload power stations
The Darling Downs Power Station is one of Australia’s most efficient baseload gas-fired power stations, capable of supplying enough energy to power more than 400,000 homes each day. This is based on an average QLD household which consumes 30KWh/d and a 500MW in one day. Can produce up to 630MW.

As this power station is capable of maintaining full base load 24 hours a day while a solar array is only capable of supplying power for maybe 12-14 hours on a sunny day, you start to see some of the shortcomings of PV cells supplying homes.

This power station cost $780,000,000 to build and will have a service life in excess of 30 years, However this figure doesn't take into account the cost of fuel and maintenance for the generators.

Based on your figures disolusionedpvowner, to supply 400,000 homes with PV cells would cost $4 billion and would only be able to supply power on sunny days and then only for a maximum of 14 hours per day.

Addendum:
You made your last post while I was writing mine disolusionedpvowner, So now I've just read the link you provided of estimates to build a power station in southwestern Wisconsin USA in 2008.

The link to the Origin Energy site is more valid to the costs of building in Australia as the power station in Qld has been operating since 2010.

[MalleyFowl]

I only purchased my system on the basis of a "guaranteed" 60 cent per kW. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that the Govt could/would simply break the contract and tell me "too bad lol". In the private sector this is know as "fraud".

If the private sector guaranteed a provider 60 cents to supply a product that the private sector can manufacture for about 14 cents, This is called bankruptcy.

This is also affecting me on a fundamental moral level. I'm not sure that I can/am willing to exist in a society where this can happen. My own government ripping me off so blatantly! A government is supposed to care for its people!

I don't have the courage to comment on this paragraph.

[disolusionedpvowner]

As this power station is capable of maintaining full base load 24 hours a day while a solar array is only capable of supplying power for maybe 12-14 hours on a sunny day, you start to see some of the shortcomings of PV cells supplying homes.

This power station cost $780,000,000 to build and will have a service life in excess of 30 years, However this figure doesn't take into account the cost of fuel and maintenance for the generators.

Based on your figures disolusionedpvowner, to supply 400,000 homes with PV cells would cost $4 billion and would only be able to supply power on sunny days and then only for a maximum of 14 hours per day.

Addendum:
You made your last post while I was writing mine disolusionedpvowner, So now I've just read the link you provided of estimates to build a power station in southwestern Wisconsin USA in 2008.

The link to the Origin Energy site is more valid to the costs of building in Australia as the power station in Qld has been operating since 2010.

I agree PV power generation is not viable under current grid electricity cost this is why it is going to be artificially driven up so it does become viable. In the mean time the government has put incentives in place to make it viable in the intrim untill consumers digest the comming price hikes. What is wrong after setting the rules of incentive get you commited and exposed with no way out then withdraw a substantial part of that incentive is morally wrong and I suggest lawfully wrong if it gets tested.

Keep in mind it is generally accepted that PV will not replace conventional power generation and is implemented as suppliment and as a suppliment while not available 24 hours a day it contributes to meeting daytime industry loads therefore reduces the necessity to build new power stations giving a substantial financial benefit to all consumers by a few that have outlayed their money initially based on expected returns the level of which is now being denied to them.

What you have not included is "the cost of fuel and maintenance for the generators." and the There will be a combined investment of about $500 million to complete the Spring Gully development, start the coal seam gas development in the Walloons and construct the connecting infrastructure to supply the fuel to power the generators and knowing Origin Energy as a shareholder and ex employee the annual retune on this investment will be sustantial (certainly much higher than the 19% in my case) yet again the poor home owner that has put his money up front the effective return in commercial value was low even before the reduction and would not be viable with the current proposed reduction.

This gives very rough numbers of $780,000,000 + $500,000,000 plus I would suggest an anual return on this investment of 30% @ $384,000,000 pa anum plus your fuel and maintainance costs not only to the power plant but also the gas supply infrustructure all suggesting that State goverments and consumers in general are on a pretty good deal with the poor home owner putting his money up front and covering maintainance and replacement costs.

[JasonC]

just for your interest, found this somewhere else I don't take credit for it but apparently this decision was announced back on 27 Oct 2010