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Thread: Spray Foam Insulation. Who does it ?

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    Default Spray Foam Insulation. Who does it ?

    This product is used quite extensively on US/Canadian home improvements/DIY shows but rarely here from what I can see.
    That along with other insulators can bring it up to an R35 rating which leaves our R5 somewhat behind.
    We are all on about reducing energy usage for both heat and cooling but insulation to me still seems to be inadequately used, including Double Glazing so why isnt Spray Foam used?.
    I remember seeing it advertised over 30 years ago but then a story went around that it under certain heat conditions (House Fire) it gave off Cyanotic fumes which were deadly and after that the idea of using this product just sort of faded away. Truth be known by the time the foam 'Gassed' off, you were dead anyway from smoke inhalation.
    On one show I saw them using a 2 part mix with the chemicals in what looked like 2 X 4.5kg LPG bottles into a 'Mixer' and sprayed into the wall cavity.
    So whats the story, who uses it, is it hard to use and why isnt it?
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!



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    Cool

    It would be a cablers nightmare. It's bad enough with fibreglass insulation

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    it is used here for industrial insulation.



    it is not to dissimilar to the 2 part spray foam in boats

    Bet you saw it being used on Holmes on Holmes

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    yes, and a few other similar based shows.
    I disagree with watchdog about it being a 'Cabler's Nightmare' on a New build as the wiring is done first before spraying and how many current build or old homes can you access behind walls ???.
    With proper thought and design, it can be done as it is today when a concrete slab is laid and the plumbing put in place.
    I remember as a kid seeing walls go up only to have the plumber electrican come along and have to hack holes to run the services, today with FIXED services they either put it in place or allow for for the installation later.
    On one job on a show called 'This Old House', they premade the external wall and allowed an aperture for cabling to be run.
    I was looking at the roof and ceiling cavity and outside walls.
    I have an old firbro clad house and I thought, how about putting up 50 mm deep battens on the outside of the external walls (Vertical) along the existing studs, spray to depth then clad with a suitable material ?
    I would then have an external material, be it fibro or Vynal then 50 mm of foam,old cladding, 50/60 mm airgap to the old inner wall.
    Consider the cost of the labour to remove the old FIBRO because of its danger, this idea would leave the older type fibro in place and be quicker to cover.
    As I live at 950 metres on the Great Diving Range with a South Western exposure with Winter Temps down to Minus 10c and possible snow, I need all the insulation I can get on 'My Old House' !!.
    Last edited by gordon_s1942; 11-09-11 at 06:30 PM.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    ayers rock at karuah is made from foam spray
    they still use it to insulate chook sheds ect

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    Leyland Bros ???
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    The last house I owner-built I used a can or 2 of expanda foam to insulate the bath after I had set it in, good idea I thaught, if im going to pay to heat water I may as well keep it hot.
    On inspection a day or so later I noticed a bow in the far side of the bath, F**k !!! Shit!!! Spent the next 2 days on my back trying to dig out the foam to remove the excess pressure from the bath Turned out it was a flaw in the bath

  • The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to homebrew041 For This Useful Post:

    crazy (11-09-11),gordon_s1942 (12-09-11),weirdo (11-09-11)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    yes, and a few other similar based shows.
    I disagree with watchdog about it being a 'Cabler's Nightmare' on a New build as the wiring is done first before spraying and how many current build or old homes can you access behind walls ???.
    With proper thought and design, it can be done as it is today when a concrete slab is laid and the plumbing put in place.
    I remember as a kid seeing walls go up only to have the plumber electrican come along and have to hack holes to run the services, today with FIXED services they either put it in place or allow for for the installation later.
    On one job on a show called 'This Old House', they premade the external wall and allowed an aperture for cabling to be run.
    I was looking at the roof and ceiling cavity and outside walls.
    I have an old firbro clad house and I thought, how about putting up 50 mm deep battens on the outside of the external walls (Vertical) along the existing studs, spray to depth then clad with a suitable material ?
    I would then have an external material, be it fibro or Vynal then 50 mm of foam,old cladding, 50/60 mm airgap to the old inner wall.
    Consider the cost of the labour to remove the old FIBRO because of its danger, this idea would leave the older type fibro in place and be quicker to cover.
    As I live at 950 metres on the Great Diving Range with a South Western exposure with Winter Temps down to Minus 10c and possible snow, I need all the insulation I can get on 'My Old House' !!.

    Is your house a highset house Gordon?
    Reason for asking is a chain is only as good as it's weakest link.
    If you have just pine floorboards and not built in under your house, you would have a fair bit of heat loss through there aswell.
    Not to mention windows, they are also great heatsinks. Curtains will help.
    Might be easier to make an insulated suit for you and the missus

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    Quote Originally Posted by weirdo View Post

    Is your house a highset house Gordon?
    Reason for asking is a chain is only as good as it's weakest link.
    If you have just pine floorboards and not built in under your house, you would have a fair bit of heat loss through there aswell.
    Not to mention windows, they are also great heatsinks. Curtains will help.
    Might be easier to make an insulated suit for you and the missus
    Not 'highset' but elevated on a medium slope but the 'underside' of the timber frame is brick all around from the ground to the bottom wall plate.
    Front to back the house is some 8 inches high to a maximum of 4 feet, slope is about 1 in 10 or so.
    I have often wished I had the money/ability over the years to have put some kind of heating system in the cavity so that it would be able to heat the whole house without it costing the earth to install or run.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Not 'highset' but elevated on a medium slope but the 'underside' of the timber frame is brick all around from the ground to the bottom wall plate.
    Front to back the house is some 8 inches high to a maximum of 4 feet, slope is about 1 in 10 or so.
    I have often wished I had the money/ability over the years to have put some kind of heating system in the cavity so that it would be able to heat the whole house without it costing the earth to install or run.

    I wouldnt have thought that the spray foam could exert enough pressure to 'Bow' a bath tub, even a plastic/fibreglass one if it was vented to allow it to expand.
    The stuff I have seen seems to solidify fairly rapidily so I wouldnt expect expansion after a few minutes had passed.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post

    I wouldnt have thought that the spray foam could exert enough pressure to 'Bow' a bath tub, even a plastic/fibreglass one if it was vented to allow it to expand.
    The stuff I have seen seems to solidify fairly rapidily so I wouldnt expect expansion after a few minutes had passed.
    You are right, guess I hit the panic button It was well vented to the front and I started application at the back so there should have been no problem but I had a flashback of when I was a lad working at Flinders Medical centre.We had built a special refrigeration unit and used a 2 part foam to insulate it, we poured the mix down the cavity threw a large board on the top and jumped up,the pair of us were lifted a couple of inches

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    Quote Originally Posted by homebrew041 View Post
    You are right, guess I hit the panic button It was well vented to the front and I started application at the back so there should have been no problem but I had a flashback of when I was a lad working at Flinders Medical centre.We had built a special refrigeration unit and used a 2 part foam to insulate it, we poured the mix down the cavity threw a large board on the top and jumped up,the pair of us were lifted a couple of inches
    Yep the 2 part stuff does expand heaps unlike the spray stuff.

    the 2 pack stuf i have used and have sitting here for a boat refit expands
    in excess of 30 times its size, so 1 cubic foot of liquid will become 30 cubic feet of solid foam.

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    I had it in a house in Melbourne years ago.

    I had a west and north wall that were brick cavity. In summer the walls were very hot making the house uncomfortable in the afternon.

    I had the foam pumped into the walls.
    What a diff. The walls stayed cold, the house aircon was hardly needed and it was noticeably quieter.

    Ive tried to get it again recently but cant find anyone who is willing to pump down a wall. All only want to do the easy jobs like spraying it on to open wall cavitys etc

    I dont think the fumes were ever an issue as the wall vented at the top to the roof spce and at the bottom it was sealed with rolls of newspaper to hold foam in place at initial fill.

    Bazzle

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    Fumes during installation werent a problem nor 'overfill' but I remember comments were made that in the event of a fire, the heat 'COULD' cause the material to release a Cyrogenic vapor that was deadly.
    Of course any fire produces smoke and most household materials now in use would do excatly the same thing as shown that in a lot of House Fire deaths, its Smoke Inhalation is the prime cause of death, not the actual fire.
    This is like Double Glazing etc which is known to be a excellent insulator but the no one seems interested in supplying it.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    On Holmes in New Orleans they had to spray over the 'spray on foam' a layer of stuff that protects it from fire due to the gases 'spray on foam' gives off when burning.
    Mike Holmes uses the closed cell spray polyurethane foam.

    some info here

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssrattus View Post
    On Holmes in New Orleans they had to spray over the 'spray on foam' a layer of stuff that protects it from fire due to the gases 'spray on foam' gives off when burning.
    Mike Holmes uses the closed cell spray polyurethane foam.

    some info here
    Exactly ssrattus, there are many products on the market now that are made fire resistant that werent years ago and changes in structures and fire walls to reduce the danger of a fire so those claims made very many years ago just dont apply today.
    Like Steel framed homes were considered 'Electrical 'Hazards' and required all sorts of frame bonding and earthing but I think that 'hazard' is now disregarded due to the popularity of such structures.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    yes, and a few other similar based shows.
    I disagree with watchdog about it being a 'Cabler's Nightmare' on a New build as the wiring is done first before spraying and how many current build or old homes can you access behind walls ???.
    With proper thought and design, it can be done as it is today when a concrete slab is laid and the plumbing put in place.
    I remember as a kid seeing walls go up only to have the plumber electrican come along and have to hack holes to run the services, today with FIXED services they either put it in place or allow for for the installation later.
    On one job on a show called 'This Old House', they premade the external wall and allowed an aperture for cabling to be run.
    I was looking at the roof and ceiling cavity and outside walls.
    I have an old firbro clad house and I thought, how about putting up 50 mm deep battens on the outside of the external walls (Vertical) along the existing studs, spray to depth then clad with a suitable material ?
    I would then have an external material, be it fibro or Vynal then 50 mm of foam,old cladding, 50/60 mm airgap to the old inner wall.
    Consider the cost of the labour to remove the old FIBRO because of its danger, this idea would leave the older type fibro in place and be quicker to cover.
    As I live at 950 metres on the Great Diving Range with a South Western exposure with Winter Temps down to Minus 10c and possible snow, I need all the insulation I can get on 'My Old House' !!.
    Walcha? I have a place in Bendemeer

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    About 20 years ago I looked into getting a business started in Melbourne to spray under slate tiles to insulate and waterproof.
    Got the idea when I was in England a few companies were doing it.
    Contacted a couple of guys in Melbourne who did it to work out some numbers.
    They spent the winter in Canada (their summer) doing piggerys and the rest of the year in Melbourne doing mainly commercial stuff.
    Price, return, etc didnt add up so I let it go

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