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Thread: wierd channel 7 problem in perth HELP please

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    Quote Originally Posted by carjackma View Post
    Just want to say thanks to all it turned out to be too much signal.
    I have reinstalled my splitter without the booster and all is well.
    when I had only one tv or all tvs with a booster I had probs .now its installed without the booster all is good
    anway thanks again to all for your advice
    Tuner overload... as suspected.

    Thanks for the update..... pleased you got it sorted.



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    Thanks for posting your resolution, every ones experiences help in solving hassles.
    It seems MHA's are both a Boon and a Hindrance when dealing with Digital reception.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    Thanks for posting your resolution, every ones experiences help in solving hassles.
    It seems MHA's are both a Boon and a Hindrance when dealing with Digital reception.
    Once carjackma posted his location and line of site to the high-powered TX only 14 km away, it was obvious to me there would be no need for any kind of amp.

    Chances are he could probably easily split the antenna signals 8 ways and still have reserve.

    It's a very common misconception... if it doesn't work, add an amp.

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    LP34 would have given you about 80dB if not more. I know as I did testing out the front of Sciteq Canning Vale store, out on the road holding the antenna at head height it was giving 75dB more or less across the VHF and 80dB UHF


    4 Way spliter gives about 6bB loss so if the power level before the spliter was 80dB then you would have about 74dB after the spliter and about 70dB at the wall socket. Thats why the antenna guy said it was with in tolerence. 24dB amp would have given you about 94dB at the wall socket. That is really over powered. max cliff is about 80dB at the wall socket. Even if the power before the spliter was 70dB you would have 84dB at the wall socket.

    I have rarely advised an amplifer with a Fracarro LP34. Infact all the installers I know never put an amp in when they are dealling with the Fracarro. Some installers are using these in Mandurah and running two or more TVs without an amp pointing at the Bickley transmitters. These antennii are the ducks nuts.

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    The great thing with the LP's is the low BER and flat gain across the band.

    Generally designed for for good signal areas, but I've had good success with them over considerable distance at times.

    It's the antenna I install in about 90% of jobs.

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    I'm hoping that someone might be able to shed some light on a problem that I have encountered during the last two weeks. I have been receiving all digital channels for the last two years without any problem, then all of a sudden last Monday (19/09/11) I was watching channel 7 (digital) when it just dropped out completely. About 30 minutes later it was back as good as ever. Tonight it has happened again and has not come back yet. While the channel 7 reception is down, I am still able to view all other channels perfectly and I can still get analogue 7 it is only the digital 7 that is affected.

    I have one antenna on the roof and one tv point in the house. From the wall point the lead goes into my STB and then loops to my TV's antenna input. I have tried plugging the lead into the STB only and also the TV only when it is down and still no luck on either the STB or TV tuner. I have also tried to re-scan when it is down and channel 7 is not found.

    I live in Byford but not sure what antenna and where it points to. It was installed by Mr Antenna 3 yrs ago as a brand new install.

    Any ideas?

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by sveevers View Post
    I'm hoping that someone might be able to shed some light on a problem that I have encountered during the last two weeks. I have been receiving all digital channels for the last two years without any problem, then all of a sudden last Monday (19/09/11) I was watching channel 7 (digital) when it just dropped out completely. About 30 minutes later it was back as good as ever. Tonight it has happened again and has not come back yet. While the channel 7 reception is down, I am still able to view all other channels perfectly and I can still get analogue 7 it is only the digital 7 that is affected.

    I have one antenna on the roof and one tv point in the house. From the wall point the lead goes into my STB and then loops to my TV's antenna input. I have tried plugging the lead into the STB only and also the TV only when it is down and still no luck on either the STB or TV tuner. I have also tried to re-scan when it is down and channel 7 is not found.

    I live in Byford but not sure what antenna and where it points to. It was installed by Mr Antenna 3 yrs ago as a brand new install.

    Any ideas?

    Steve
    Hi Steve,

    You are much further away from the main transmitters compared to carjackma so your problem may be different, although, if your antenna is designed to receive channels below channel 6, ABC analoge Ch 2 may be overloading, causing the same result that carjackma experienced.

    Likewise, overly strong FM radio could be an issue.

    Just because it's a relatively new antenna doesn't mean it's the correct type, or installed correctly, as I've seen numerous installations by franchise antenna installers who have little understanding of what is required.

    That's not to say that's happened in your case, but I do see it regularly.

    Unfortunately, without having accurate signal measurements, it's impossible to to tell exactly what your signals are doing.

    One thing for certain though, when you scan for channels when they are not being received to to poor signal/high BER, the tuner cannot lock onto the data stream and you will have lost the channel data that you had previously saved for that channel. eg: you can't tune something that isn't there or badly corrupted.

    If you can post a pic of your antenna, that will help identify it.

    Both the main TX and the Roleystone translators will be approximately in a similar direction from Byford, bearing around 16-23 deg true, depending on your exact location.

    Terrain plays a major part, as your signal path to either of both transmission sites may be blocked.

    A simple thing to check is your flylead from the wall outlet to the TV... Is it good quality, well-shielded cable, or a thin cable with molded plastic plugs?

    If the latter, try a good flylead. eg: RG6 Quadshield.

    Once again, difficult to tell without being there with an analyser connected, checking signals.

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    MTV you are correct. bare in mind that the Canns rd repeater is very low power and uses band 5. From memory the power output is as low as 500W
    Where the main towers have 200kW UHF and 70kW VHF.

    Sounds like the antenna in question may have lost some gain either due to corrosion or physical damage. Is there an amplifier in the setup? I very much doubt you will be getting your signal from Canns rd. as it is only intended for people in the valley in and around the transmitter, hence the low output.

    Any new houses/owners could be radio RFI?

    Need more detail perhaps a photo of the install ie antenna and physical check of the cabling.

    S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strada916 View Post
    MTV you are correct. bare in mind that the Canns rd repeater is very low power and uses band 5. From memory the power output is as low as 500W
    Where the main towers have 200kW UHF and 70kW VHF.

    Sounds like the antenna in question may have lost some gain either due to corrosion or physical damage. Is there an amplifier in the setup? I very much doubt you will be getting your signal from Canns rd. as it is only intended for people in the valley in and around the transmitter, hence the low output.

    Any new houses/owners could be radio RFI?

    Need more detail perhaps a photo of the install ie antenna and physical check of the cabling.

    S
    Yes, the Roleystone translators are low power, and I too have doubts if they can be received in Byford, but it's one of those things you don't know until you have signal measurements, specifically from the OP's location.

    I posted all the details of the Roleystone translators in carjackma's thread.

    Like most reception issues, there's usually a lot of variables/possibilities which may all exhibit similar symptoms.

    Ultimately, being there with test equipment will usually quickly locate the problem, but in it's absence, the more info the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Yes, the Roleystone translators are low power, and I too have doubts if they can be received in Byford, but it's one of those things you don't know until you have signal measurements, specifically from the OP's location.

    I posted all the details of the Roleystone translators in carjackma's thread.

    Like most reception issues, there's usually a lot of variables/possibilities which may all exhibit similar symptoms.

    Ultimately, being there with test equipment will usually quickly locate the problem, but in it's absence, the more info the better.
    I'm seeing a problem like this, but as it's not constant, getting the Antenna guy around when it's happening is a bit of a problem. Any suggestions?

    Over the weekend, I had the problem on CH10 for about 10 minutes on two separate occasions. It happens on 7 a couple of times a week.

    Thanks for any suggestions on how to fix/troubleshoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogknees View Post
    I'm seeing a problem like this, but as it's not constant, getting the Antenna guy around when it's happening is a bit of a problem. Any suggestions?

    Over the weekend, I had the problem on CH10 for about 10 minutes on two separate occasions. It happens on 7 a couple of times a week.

    Thanks for any suggestions on how to fix/troubleshoot.
    Chances are your signals are sitting on the 'digital cliff' and slight variations (which constantly occur) cause noticeable changes (pixelation, reception loss, etc).

    Signal measurements taken at any time would indicate if that's the case, so an installer may be able to determine the issue without actual reception loss at the time.

    Naturally, there are other intermittent interference issues which may be involved, but you won't know until you have accurate signal measurements taken.

    It's a bit like ringing up the doctor and saying you're sick and the symptoms you describe could mean you have any number of health issues.

    Until the doctor examines you and runs some tests, he probably won't know exactly what the problem is and how to treat it.

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    Thanks for the info so far.

    My channel 7 was down all last night and has only just come back.

    A bit more info from my end.
    I checked the fly lead, looks to be in good nick from the outside and it is not a thin cable with moulded fittings on the end. I would say that the cable was made by the installer as it has meter markings on it. On the cable it says RG6U Tri Shield. Is this any good?

    Also, do the BER values as given by the STB mean anything? I looked at the reception details in the menu and every channel except the Ch 7 channels have a BER of 0. The Ch 7's have a BER of around 2.2(10e-4) and it is rapidly fluctuating. It was over 10 at one point.

    Cheers,
    Steve

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    Just lost it again and the BER is 192.308(10e-4).

    Steve

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    What's signal strength like?

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    Signal strength - 49%
    Quality - 5%
    SNR - 20.3dB

    This is while the channel is down and BER is 192.

    Any thoughts?

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    Your signal level is far too low. Looking at those numbers. thats why it keep going and comming. Sounds like your antenna has deteriorated over the few years it has been installed. Go buy your self a Fracarro LP34. You will never look back.
    Last edited by Strada916; 29-09-11 at 09:30 AM.

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    hey sveevers if it turns out to be your antenna I can get you one (LP34) through sciteq (Trade price)
    if you need one and you can collect from canningvale I can organise it for you


    Last edited by carjackma; 29-09-11 at 04:07 PM. Reason: got told off

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    Quote Originally Posted by carjackma View Post
    no I installed it myself and prior to that I installed the previous one ,
    I only replaced it because of the 7 issue until 6 weeks ago I had no probs,I called a antenna guy to test thats all not to install.
    I have clear line of sight to the transmitter and believe it or not I have a good picture on analog (not abc though) got me buggered .
    are there any alarms remotes etc that may use 177.500 ish freq? causing me grief as I said its not all the time.
    what I did find out today is they are using a new transmitter in rolystone and 7 is transmitted on that repeater around 477mhz so if I am within its range I might spin the antenna around and give it a go.
    Quote Originally Posted by carjackma View Post
    hey sveevers if it turns out to be your antenna I can get you one (LP34) through sciteq (Trade price)
    if you need one and you can collect from canningvale I can organise it for you
    the price will be $37.00


    Thanks Carjackma, if I decide to go down that path I will let you know. By the way, are these easy to install? How do I know where to point it? Do I need any special tool to connect the cable to the antenna or does it simply unplug from the old one and into the new one?

    Steve

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    hi guys, should you really be discussing trade prices etc ?

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    Do know when your antenna was installed because even the best looking cable can be defective.
    Did you know that just one drop of water entering the connection at the top can really spoil your whole day ??
    A simple drop of water across the conductors is all it needs.
    I have Internet by satelitte and I started to have some really major problems after less than 12 months and when it turned out the original installer was a bit lax sealing the connections on the LNB and water had got in and as result, the cable had to replaced, I would have just cut off the bad bit but he rightly said the water could have gone any distance down the cable so out it came.
    If its been there a few years and you have any doubts, bite the bullet and replace the cable, connectors along with the antenna.
    That should see you out for another 20 years or so.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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