Reply With Quotewell it is qld remember
Queensland Security providers
How is this for a poor money raising effort by the queensland Goverment whom is going to carge a $166.90 fee for all alarm installers reducing to $133.50 if you do not advise any person on the way you recommend the installation.
There are no requirements to have a ACA licence nor any trade qualifications and the end result will be just a security clearance, sorry that is another fee of $35.50 just to weed out undesirebles in the industry (In Queensland) but still gives no guarentee that the licence holder is qualified to carry out the work the licence covers.
But if you are an architect or registered professional engineer you do not have to be licenced.
And to make it even more interesting they are going to fine you for a first offence (working without an licence after the 1st of July 2008) a maximum of $37,500.00 and a stint in prison which will immeadiatly wipe you from ever holding a security licence in Queensland.
So here we are no trade qualifications just a security clearance and bingo you are a licenced seurity alarm installer in Queensland protecting property from the people thay are going to weed out and some other undesirebles whom keep on defeating the Electronic Security systems installed in Queensland.
Makes no sense to me except my bank ballance, should I not be one of the undesirebles within the Queensland Security Industry.
When I joined the then Queesland Security Association in 1989 the Queensland Goverment commenced to initiate licences for the Security Industry and 19 years later it has finally slipped through the parliment and to me it has to be of no benifit toi the end users of the Security Equipment installed as there still remains no qualifications or training to install security systems in Queensland
Yet to be a volenteer in our rural fier brigade you must complete a stingent course to ensure you are qulified to protect property against fires and there is no pay packet to perform these duties as a qualified fire fighter.
In other words I have no problems with any goverment legislation providing that by paying a fee the goverment it must introduce the appropriate training courses for alarm installers as they do with security guards and thus give the younger generation a fair introduction to our industry without being self taught or trained by self taught unqulified so called security technicians.
After 36 years in this industry nothing has ever changed for the better as most of the end users whom during these last 36 years (in queensland) was never aware that the person installing their security system was most like not qualified to carry out the work or had ever been security cleared.
So after the 1st of July all Security Installers in Queensland must be security cleared, pay a yearly fee but require no trade qulifications including a ACA licence as that is a Australia wide licence yet the Goverment of this country can not even get this right by introducing a Auastalian Security Installers licence to stop all states from charging us induvidual fees.
Comments keep them comming as we are the loosers.
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well it is qld remember
As I have said before, you Queenslander's have been getting away with murder for years now when it comes to licences and fee's compared to other states. It is about time that you guys learnt to open your wallets and pay like the rest of us have too.Originally Posted by noRbackwards
All said and done, it is about time that there is one national licencing authority that all states would have to answer to, comply to and pay the same equal fees to. Hey, we could even include that little island at the bottom where tastech come from.
At present, we get zero back in the way of services, copies of standards or regulations whenever they get changed or added to. What about training?
When you add up the total of money that you have paid over the years for all of your licencing, these should be provided free of charge via electronic format. Why should we have to pay over and over again with no return. If Qld contributed their fair share then the SIR could put in a second phone line to answer all of our complaints.
The word fee should be changed to TAX because that is all it is. When you apply for a drivers licence do you have to purchase the the rules book?
Wait till you are forced to pay a fee when they decide to change the security classes and tell you if you don't do it by a certain date then you get your licence cancelled. They surely could of waited until your next renewal, ooh they would of missed out on $40.00 times how many people.
The current system makes it easier for the unlicenced to undercut us the licenced and provide the end user a crap service in the process with no comebacks. Do you ever see them hunting down the unlicenced, never as it is easier to go to the licenced database and hassel them for compliance.
I for one would like to see a national system and a level playing field for all.
BSS904
As a holder of a NSW licence and living in Qld I am complaining about the charges and differences for seperate states knowing thet the NSW licincing is just another tax and having seen licenced techs in NSW that do not even know how to terminate a mode 3 socket let alone install a alarm system and the amount of unlicenced techs stillworking is just a laugh.
Get with it being licenced means you are just paying money for nothing and until national licencing proceedere is introduced silly buggers like me will have to pay money that is not inproving this industry at all.
Fact over 50% of your licenced so called technicians remain to hold no technical trade qulifications and continue to ruin this industry.
During the last ten years I have had the pleasure of making money by fixing alarm syatems installed mainly by "Licenced technicians" and will never run out of work until some government organisation is going to nationally run accredited training courses Some manufacturers do training and give you a accredited certificate yet two weeks later most have forgotten the basic rules. A course lasting 5 days does not turn you into a technician nor does a weeks course for a ACA licence prepare you for what is realy happening in the feild considering most ACA accredited techs still have not found a pencil or rubber to complete record books.
The Queensland Security Industry to me has done little for the Securiy Alarm Techs and I can not see an improvement and ASIAL must have given basically no imput and again we are paying fees that orginasition for what!
Face facts we are just handing over money for nothing that will assist as or stop the cheap inports that destroy the quality of equipment being installed all over Australia.
Being ASIAL accredited to me means little and being licenced means even less. Advertising in the Yellow Pages also does not mean the advertiser is Qualified to carry out that profession so why advertise with the people taht will underquote you using cheap and inferior equipment installed by totally unqualified staff..
Keep it comming as in this industry ther is no real winner until >>>>>>>>>>>
In a nutshell, it is outright robbery. Who is protecting us from these thieves?
The recent licence changes in NSW meant every licence holder both class 1 and 2 had to change their licences. With some 200,000 licence holders, than meant $8,000,000.00. All they had to do was add two separate classifications to the class 2 licence and all would have been ok, but no they had to work out a way to make sure everyone had to receive different classifications. And as was mentioned still does not protect the end user.
Take a look on eBay for example, you need a licence to SELL security equipment however the online auction site holds thousands of listings from IMO people who are unlicenced, not to mention the stuff their are peddling is absolute rubbish. The licencing is not being policed as it should and maybe if it was we wouldn't be so worried about paying our fees.
Then comes the MASTER licence issue and if people like myself own a business then the master licence is based upon being a member of an association. Where the association charges you a fee dependent on annual turnover and number of employees, talk about being held to ransom.
So again, as I mentioned it's bloody robbery that's what it is.
They are just like insurance companies and banks. It is legalised theft that we have no control over. Have you ever tried ringing the SIR to discuss any thing.....Mission impossible a lot of the time. I am surprised they have not out sourced the SIR phone line to India yet.
Ron,
you will get no argument from me with most of what you say. I don't think that you can say that the problem comes from NSW. You will get bad and unlicenced techs everywhere. A national licence system where everyone is on the same page will be a good start but certainly not fix the problem. In my opinion, the standard of new players in the market place is much lower than it used to be years ago. A lot of these new techs work to the bare minimums that they can get away with and it doesn't help that when they work for the big boys to gain some experience, they then get bent over and screwed on their hours and rates. They simply just give up and try to get as much for giving as little as possible.
There are a lot of bloody good techs out there but you will find that they have been snapped up by good organisations or they work for them selfs.
The problem is not going to fixed over night. It needs certain organisations to push for changes that will benifit the majority of the industry instead of looking after and satisfing the few who interests it currently serves.
I have tried contacting SIR, many times at different times too only to be lost in the maze of electronic phone directory and a hold time of at least 15min.They are just like insurance companies and banks. It is legalised theft that we have no control over. Have you ever tried ringing the SIR to discuss any thing.....Mission impossible a lot of the time. I am surprised they have not out sourced the SIR phone line to India yet
Ive been posting here for ages about the licencing issues & try to stir all the complacent wombats into action but to no avail. What it comes down to is this - 10 complaints will be ignored , 100 complaints will be acknowledged , 1000 complaints will get a "promise" to look into the matter from a politician & 10000 complaints may get a result nearer the next election. This is why they set up industry bodies, to represent their members. The trouble with our industry bodies is that they either allow themselves to be ignored or they simply don't care about anyone other than the main players. Ring the industry bodies and annoy the shit out of them like i do & make sure you get things in writing so you have some chance of keeping them honest.
Remember - shitstir , shitstir , shitstir
Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the licencing fee a governed attempt at keeping dubious and undesireable people out of the industry...IE to be licenced you need to pass criminal checks etc ect.
It appears to be an attempt at protecting the community at large from dubious characters that have questionable backgrounds entering the industry.That makes sense to me.
Unlike the Australian Plumbing Commission or State Electricity Commission which are covered by an ACT of Parliament, such as the Electrical Safety Act, there is no requirement to issue a "Certificate of Compliance" upon completion of the job by the security technician and no Government Department who can take action against shoddy work. Poor work by a licenced Plumber or Electrician can result in large fines or their operation being closed down by the Commission.
So apart from checking criminal backgrounds it's unclear what can actually be licenced because even if a technician is installing to Australian Standards it is quite clear that the Standards are only a guide and not a legally enforceable document.
Good to see someone that understands what the Australian Standards stand for. Then how many techs in this industry have actually got a copy of the relevant standards as again as they charge a arm and a leg for that as well.
We are loosing the battle and paying money to do so even with all these lecences the market is still flooded with cheap and inferior equiment installed by persons trying to teach themself on how to install alarm/access control and CCTV systems and once we weed out these cutt price cowboys we can all enjoy a good financial future.
But I said this in the 90's and nothing has changed except I have to pay someone to prove that I do not have a criminal history (apart from knocking of a pen here or there)
Actually the probationary period is 30th September 2008, 4/6 week wait for processing..
Its about time Queensland was bought into line with the rest of the country.
Are you an Asial member, it seems that there will be new requirements for CCTV installers, read the latest mag...
Chiming In...
Gday All,
I have to hold a Victorian/NSW and Queensland License, and the company has to be master licensed for all states... Just to keep on the right side of the law.
Here is a question for everyone here that operates in Queensland.
I'm having a running discussion, that the office of fair trading cannot answer, or will not, I've been after them every two days for the last month, We are an alarm installation company, who advised clients on what they need, So we need a Class 2 license, and the technicians need both subsets to the license.
I've been told that we need/dont need/shouldnt need/please call back/seek your own legal advice by the Office of Fair trading, that because we sub-contract monitoring and patrol services of other companies that hold a class 1 license, we in fact need a class 1 license, I shouldnt complain and dish out the extra 400$ to make us a Class 1 and 2, but I would dearly love some clarification on this...
Does anyone have a contact or something in writing about this???
Thanks all!
ReD
What a mess.
In the UK, there is a choice of two governing bodies for Alarm Installation Companies and here's what generally happens....
1. Customer goes to insurance company to request insurance cover.
2. Insurance company advise them - no cover without monitored alarm from approved installation company
3. Police enforce this by issuing a unique reference number for every alarm in their area and only attending alarms where the number is quoted by the Mon Ctr.
Simple. If the customer wants insurance, then they have to play by the rules.
That's certainly good for maintaining a healthy security industry in the UK, but the only police I ever saw in my 4 years in Queensland were hiding up trees at the side of motorways. Best of luck getting them guys to climb down and attend alarm activations.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
If you use the services of a third party they must have a Master Licence & relevant sub licences. You must keep up to date copies of their licences , association membership[ details & insurance details. Its a pain in the bum keeping tabs on when they are all due & trying to get updated copies. But that seems to be the current plan , make compliance sooo difficult that you don't actually have time to do any work or make any income. Then you will surely leave the industry & all will be peaceful again. Don't you know that we ourselves are the cause of the problems by wanting to do this type of work.
I just paid
$ 136.00 for security officer / crowd controller license
$ 35.50 police check- (recently bought in)
$166.90 for installer/advisors license
$688.50 for firms license
4 photo's $12.50
Plus my cablers license on top of that
Plus I.R certification, plus Insurance, plus etc plus plus, wow lots of money for NOTHING!
And after all that money are you technically qualified to carry out the work you do as in qld you just pay the money as no one has to be trade qualified to carry out the work. In other words just another money spinner to supposidly prove that we do not have a criminal record but can remain crooks until proven otherwise.
I happen to have a qld licence that looks like a free give away found in a breakfast cerial packet .
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Why are there so many refunds for money send minus handling charges lately yes they are weeding out some undesirebles but it still does not weed out incompetent technicians that we have to follow around.
Get real Qld have a training system in place for Security Technicians rather then the ever inceasing STI's that all do things their own way and all know better yet false alarms never decrease due to poor installation methods.
How many Bureaus here paid for the class 1 (MONITORING) module on their firms license?
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