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Thread: Building an alarm

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    Lightbulb Building an alarm

    Hi, I'm currently building my own alarm controller and doing a bunch of research on what is out there.

    The most common circuits appear to be either NC or (D)EOL between controller(panel) and sensor.

    I've seen quite a number of 2wire communications around, both sensor<->controller and keypad<->controller. Is anyone here aware of what these protocols are? Has anyone seen devices that do cryptographic challenge/response on buses?

    Cheers
    Heath



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    Very little if any commercially available in AU. However such technologies are likely to become the norm for the future. Far more secure solution than relying on voltage changes to advise the device status/condition.

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    Heath,

    Remember the KISS principle.

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    KISS indeed...
    Decided to build my own controller to keep it very simple & cheap for my father. It seems the packages out there (anything with multiple sensors) are all geared to being installed /managed / monitored / maintained by professionals, at great cost. Also a great learning experience for me

    Why do people pay for central monitoring / callout? By the time the car gets there, the crooks already gone!? Anyone know of any unbiased studies that show advantages for monitoring?

    On a side note, I'm thinking of open sourcing my design. Because I'm not going to fork out the $$ on AS2201, I don't know the criteria that must be met for a security alarm to be manufactured, installed. Not talking for insurance discount purposes - but just to meet legal requirements..
    Any clear cut rules there?

    Cheers!

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    If you're not installing for payment, or intending to claim a discount on your insurance then AS2201.x is a moot point. If however you're intending for the thing to communicate with the outside world, then you'll need to get it A-Ticked which will cost.

    If you wan't to know what's expected, don't be a tight arse and instead fork out the $25.00 for AS2201.1.

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    Well it would have IP connectivity but not to a monitoring network. Unless you consider the homeowner's iPhone a 'monitoring network'.. Perhaps an embedded web server for easy configuration and smtp for email notifications?
    I'm not talking about a device that is sold as a professional alarm solution, just a private at home DIY (or perhaps a handyman?? or professionally certified if the costs can be managed well) 'home protection solution'.. I guess calling it an alarm means 2201 requirement.?

    Not trying to do the dodgy here - quite the opposite!! Not intending to step on the professional system toes..

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    Completely understand what you're trying to do and if you've got the know how go for it. Just to clarify though, the requirement for compliance to AS2201.x comes into play where you intend to a) sell or install the system for commercial gain or income generating purposes and b) claim a discount on your insurance policy for having an alarm system installed (the actual requirements will vary from one insurer to the next). If you're simply building and installing this thing as a matter of DIY because you can, then there is nothing to stop you. Most of the DIY products sold on the market don't fully comply with the standards in any case.

    For A & C Tick requirements click to get you started.
    Last edited by Drift; 08-12-11 at 12:26 AM.

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    Cheers mate - seems like it would fall under a medium risk device. I'll look more into it.

    Time to get building

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    I have two major issues with this whole 'self monitoring' idea, regardless of how it's implemented.

    1) Your phone beeps and tells you that your alarm has been triggered. Then what? Are you going to call the Police? They won't even listen.

    2) What happens when you're at the beach, in the cinema, out of range?

    People will learn the shortfalls of SMS this New Year's Eve, when they receive "Happy New Year" messages at 4am, which were sent at midnight.

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    What happens when the crooks leave in 5 minutes and the patrols take 30?

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    Well monitoring implies someone watching something, ready to take action if the event occurs right? The action being some guard turning up at some point in the future, only to find some broken glass and cables hanging out of the wall socket where my tv used to be..
    Bargain at $30+/month...?

    How about an alarm that isn't monitored, but notifies and allows remote control by the home owner. Easy web interface for configuration, etc..

    How to deal with the crim in your house? A bloody loud siren. I mean, really really loud. Pain threshold loud, inside. Forget the cops / security and avoid pissing off the neighbours by keeping most of the sound internal. Use the PIR / microwave sensors to figure out when they have disappeared and switch off the sirens when no more movement is detected - further reducing sound pollution. Then send the homeowner a sms (via IP gateway)/email/twitter/facebook or even voip call.

    As a side note about the cops - I've actually come home to guys leaving the property - gave chase and they got stuck trying to do a uturn. I took pics of them and gave the cops a cd. (Lucky they didn't bash me, I think they were a bit startled that someone would actually do that). Anyway, cops knew them - previous records - but couldn't charge them cause I never actually saw them carrying stuff out of the house. The point is, nail them when they are IN the house, with something that prevents them from carrying out the theft...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hj1980 View Post
    The point is, nail them when they are IN the house, with something that prevents them from carrying out the theft...
    Exactly WRONG.

    When criminals are in the premises, you've failed at securing them.

    Security requires several 'D's - Deter, Delay Detect and Deny etc.

    If the alarm advises that someone is in your living room, then yes, it's largely futile and even an urgent police response is likely too slow.

    If on the other hand you have implemented your layers of security correctly, the alarm should be sounding and a response initiated well before there is a significant breach. The criminals are then in a race against the clock that they do NOT wish to lose.

    But by all means, you implement security via Facebook and let me know how it goes.
    Last edited by downunderdan; 09-12-11 at 03:44 PM.

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    Couldn't have put it better, Dan.

    I had that same conversation today where consultants have stripped a $2mil project down to $8-900K. Most of the cost cutting was in the perimeter detection, so in other words the customer is left with an $850K system that advises them that 'it's too late'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Exactly WRONG.
    When criminals are in the premises, you've failed at securing them.
    Are you suggesting that anyone who has a security alarm which goes off has failed to secure their premises? I'm not too sure what your point in your post is - unless you are referring to glass break sensors / reed switches.

    The scope of this particular thread isn't regarding physical security at all, it's me trying to get feedback on the usefulness of an alarm that fills a gap in the market, while trying to solve some very common problems with existing alarms that you yourself install..? I'm sure you are smart enough to not condense IP connectivity from an alarm into 'security via Facebook'. You might have just missed the point?

    Nothing personal mate, but you don't seem to have anything constructive to add so far. I'm not here to piss people off, I'm here cause I want to hear useful feedback (even if it is negative).

    I'm very much keen on perimeter detection btw. I don't think it would fill the same market though (I'm referring to perimeter of property, not reed/glass). If you have any ideas on that also, i'm interested!

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE View Post
    Couldn't have put it better, Dan.

    I had that same conversation today where consultants have stripped a $2mil project down to $8-900K. Most of the cost cutting was in the perimeter detection, so in other words the customer is left with an $850K system that advises them that 'it's too late'.
    What kind of perimeter detection are you referring to? With that kind of cash being splashed around, I'm assuming microwave or infrared beams or acoustic wire cut sensors on the perimeter fence? Also, that would make more sense as I'm assuming 24/7 on site guards?

    Just in case you didn't know, I'm referring to residential properties where the owner doesn't want to spend money on a monitoring service that doesn't actually provide the benefit. A slightly smaller scale

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    There are so many examples of ignorance in your argument, but I'm loath to respond simply as I'd hate you to think I wasn't being "constructive".

    Suffice it to say that most security principles are hundreds or thousands of years old. The only thing that changes is the weaponry (technology). We are at the cutting edge of security technology and I always chuckle when a young IT graduate thinks he can come up with something new which would be terrific, except his first move is to alienate people who know exactly what they are talking about.

    Anyway. Good luck with your project. Perhaps Jaycar can sell it in kit form one day. I just pray your Father's healthcare is managed with a bit more circumspect than his security seems to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    There are so many examples of ignorance in your argument, but I'm loath to respond simply as I'd hate you to think I wasn't being "constructive".
    I agree we have different views on "constructive".

    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    We are at the cutting edge of security technology and I always chuckle when a young IT graduate thinks he can come up with something new which would be terrific, except his first move is to alienate people who know exactly what they are talking about.
    1) We are always at the cutting edge.
    2) You immediately alienated the idea, as you have done in every other thread, because of an alternative to contract based monitoring. Same old BS argument about new years sms messages or cinema or out of range. Get over it!
    3) You make assumptions about me that are not correct, but perhaps that makes you feel more 'secure'?
    4) If you stopped laughing at started taking new perspectives with a hint of seriousness, you might actually learn something yourself..??
    5) I'm not a security professional, I'm not claiming to be. I've approached this thread with questions whilst trying very hard not to alienate anyone.

    You seem to think that the only solution out there is contract based central monitoring, that there is no advantage with self notifications. You seem to understand that both police and security response is inadequate and doesn't solve the problem. You emphasize to me that the correct solution is preventing them from getting in the house in the first place (despite that being way off the point of the thread), yet you are more than happy to sell your customers alarms and monitoring??! Sell them razorwire or dogs or something.

    I'm starting to question your level of expertise myself, In my experience the people most resistant to a new idea (except via critical analysis) are those that feel threatened - usually politically or if they feel an inferior level of knowledge. You've provided no critical analysis, presented no solutions and go straight for your 'the book is full of Ds' and 'SMS = bad because cinema n range n stuff'. How am I supposed to take anything you say seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Anyway. Good luck with your project. Perhaps Jaycar can sell it in kit form one day. I just pray your Father's healthcare is managed with a bit more circumspect than his security seems to be.
    Maybe I should get him to pay you to come and advise him that he should buy one of your alarms that he can never manage, and a monitoring contract that doesn't prevent theft - to go with it. OR, maybe I should build the thing myself, learn more as I go and provide an adequate level of security (more than there is currently) at a much cheaper price, give him the ability to monitor and control it, and incorporate some actual theft prevention measures.

    You're so full of it. Go and sell some alarms instead of slagging off people's ideas on here all day because they don't fall in line with your business model.

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    I work for a company which provides monitoring and alarm repairs. It seems to me that one of the overlooked features of B2B is monitoring for lack of signals. So when your alarm fails, phone line fails, adsl filter fails, wireless backup fails, internet fails, router fails or computer fails someone other than an SMS you are not going to get can let you know its broke and needs fixing.The other thing I notice is that clients supply five or six mobile numbers to call in event of alarm and at 3am they are all still at the cimena or down on the beach because no one answers which slows down sending the patrol. If you do have B2B reduce your callout list to one or two people who will answer the call or just get the patrol sent directly.
    Good B2B costs less than $7 per week and patrols about $50 each visit not much compared to the value of your property and not that much to add that extra layer of defence.
    If you can make your phone app monitor for a test SMS so when you don't get it your app will let you know that something is broke would be a start unless of course you're a movie buff or love the beach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PANDATECH View Post
    It seems to me that one of the overlooked features of B2B is monitoring for lack of signals. So when your alarm fails, phone line fails, adsl filter fails, wireless backup fails, internet fails, router fails or computer fails someone other than an SMS you are not going to get can let you know its broke and needs fixing.
    Definitely something to consider & a good point! Up until not long ago, the only ways to get messages to mobiles was SMS or to call. With smartphones, you can have software on the phone that polls a service over the data connection, other smartphones actually implement a push based system from the service -> phone. This would be one method to workaround I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by PANDATECH View Post
    The other thing I notice is that clients supply five or six mobile numbers to call in event of alarm and at 3am they are all still at the cimena or down on the beach because no one answers which slows down sending the patrol. If you do have B2B reduce your callout list to one or two people who will answer the call or just get the patrol sent directly.
    Would you say that the client's motivation is cost here - trying to reduce a callout fee by getting in there first? Is there any other reason they'd do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by PANDATECH View Post
    Good B2B costs less than $7 per week and patrols about $50 each visit not much compared to the value of your property and not that much to add that extra layer of defence. If you can make your phone app monitor for a test SMS so when you don't get it your app will let you know that something is broke would be a start unless of course you're a movie buff or love the beach.
    It sounds so cheap when you put it like that Actually, I'll admit that it really isn't that expensive - as you said - especially when weighed up over larger costs. Around where I live, there's a whole bunch of properties on acreage (so your point is even more true). I've spoken to a number of people though who've had break ins - some monitored and some not. By the time there's any response in any case (monitored or just homeowner), it's way too late. A problem with acreage!

    I'd appreciate any ideas on how to deal with a thief once they have been detected. The best I've come up with is really really loud internal sirens and perhaps cutting the lighting power with some bright internal strobes - attempt to disorientate and disturb them as much as possible so they have no other choice but to leave. Ever heard of a burglar wearing earphones??

    Cheers for the feedback!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hj1980 View Post
    A problem with acreage!
    Thats where your perimeter detection devices come into play.

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