do i need a licence

[mtv]

i sent this again and got this response;

"Please note I wish to do this as a job, so would be installing in other people’s homes, do I need the license in this case? "

response:
Dear Mr Miller

There are no longer any cabling licenses for telecommunications cabling installers the licenses have been replaced by cabling registrations – as I said in my previous email,

Installing the device and the associated camera cables (audio and video by the looks of things) would not require the installer to hold a cabling registration. Nor would installing the Ethernet cable between the DVR and the persons modem.

It's still not clear how you described your intended method of performing the installations.

ACMA make and enforce the cabling rules, but as stated, the Austel Cabling Licence is now managed by cabling resistrars and now called a 'cabling registration'... eg: a registered cabler, which is essentially the same as the previous Austel cabling licence, with a different name and managed by different people.

The theory and practical skills required to obtain a cabling registration remain the same.



Because ACMA is a Federal Government department, it does not regulate individual state/territory licensing for security monitoring equipment installation, which in your instance is controlled by Victoria Police Licensing & Regulation Division, in the link I posted earlier.

Many TAFE colleges etc run registered cabler courses and the registrars in the link above also often run courses.

Good luck with the courses and licensing.

[Drift]

Impure.. the long and short of it. Don't forget there are two completely different things we're discussing here.

1) You need a cabling registration
2) You need the appropriate security licence.

The ACMA regulations are fedral thus do not vary from state to state. The security licencing regulations are handled by the states thus vary greatly. For instance, in WA we require a consultants licence to advise people on their security requirements (IE: Sell them a system) and an installers licence to install and maintain the system. Each of these licences also requires specific endorsements depending on the types of solutions you're offering or working on. Alarms, CCTV, Access Control etc....

Again, inspite of the email you've received, MTV is on the right track. I'd suggest your inquiry has been misinterpreted. I'll give you an example:

1) DVR and Router installed adjacent each other in an entertainment unit or cupboard. 3m patch lead required to connect the two. No fixed cabling required thus no registration required. However, given that you're installing cabling (to the cameras) which is to be connected to a device that is in turn intended to be connected to a telecommunications network, you require a cabling registration.
2) DVR installed in managers office, router in comms rack in sever room. 25m cabling required between office and sever room. Cabling traverses wall cavities, roof space and floor ducts. Fixed cabling thus registration IS required.

[watchdog]

I have gone into this in great depth with both the ACMA & SLED (SIR) on numerous occassions. It is not black & white & the answer seems to change depending on the talking head at the other end of the phone. I would be saying you DO need a cabling licence but as for the security licence then call them observation cameras instead of security cameras.
The people who install security doors & shutters ONLY need a security licence because they describe their products as SECURITY products.

disclaimer - only my opinion

[impure]

I told the guy exactly what i would be doing and sent him a link to the ebay page with the item described, that was the response I got back, no it isnt black and white and is very confusing, if i call them obeservation or network cameras i doubt id need either.

But according to the man from ACMA he clearly states he doesnt believe plugging in the audio and video cable require that licence, may be a different story if i am making my own coax cables and crimping, I am really confused now

[mtv]

I don't see how ACMA staff cannot follow their own rules when giving advice.

Did you read the ACMA Cabling Provider Rules I posted?

The very first one is very clear...

1.All customer cabling work in the telecommunications, fire security and data industries must be performed by a registered cabler.

It's the running/installing of cabling that's in question.. not just plugging connectors in.

[impure]

thanks mtv, ill just do it and get the licence but yes its confusing, ill email them again for clarification.

[DeanHenry]

You will need an Idividual Security Registration in order to install CCTV for financial gain. This is issued by Victoria Police. This is a must if installing any CCTV or alarm system in Victoria.

You will still need to comply with the Wiring Rules in order to make sure the installs are compliant with all relevent safety requirements.

[mtv]

thanks mtv, ill just do it and get the licence but yes its confusing, ill email them again for clarification.

The bottom line is, the rules & regulations are there primarily to ensure safety to users of the installed equipment and if connected to a carrier, their infrastructure and personnel.

If someone is injured or killed as a result of a non-compliant cabling installation, installed by a person without a full understanding of the safety requirements through training and experience, who is not accredited/licensed/registered, who do you think authorities are going to blame?

Further to that, if an insurance claim arises from say a fire, and reasonable doubt is placed on your installation work as a cause, the claim may be denied as the installation was not performed by a qualified installer in compliance with the rules and regulations.

Insurance companies will always look for any excuse not to pay a claim.

It would also be a reasonable presumption of a client that their installer is knowlegable, experienced, licensed and competent to ensure their safety.

If you want to offer the work professionally, ensure you are properly trained and accredited/licensed/registered.

I regularly find non-compliant installations performed by 'handymen' and some of those installations are a disaster just waiting to happen.

If you have to ask here... then you don't know what you're doing..... yet.

[impure]

"If you have to ask here... then you don't know what you're doing..... yet"

I find that a bit hard considering I have asked both the ACMA and TITAB today and neither were sure, so I emailed ACMA and posted the response I was given, I do know what I am doing just wanting to know if I am legally able, I have emailed ACMA again and given a complete run down of what I want to do and what equipment will be used and where the cable will be run, I think the answer will come back confirming what you have said, but please note the two emails earlier today from the ACMA did not see the connection of those cables fall under that licence, I have now clearly stated that the cables will be installed in the roof and routed to the desired location of the dvr and router and will post the response, mabe the cables in the roof change things.

I have had a variety of roles including installing split airconditioners, pc networking, test and tag. years ago I also held my disconnect reconnect licence so I am by no means a backyard handy man and have infact reported dodgy unsafe installations.

[watchdog]

I don't see how ACMA staff cannot follow their own rules when giving advice.

Did you read the ACMA Cabling Provider Rules I posted?

The very first one is very clear...

1.All customer cabling work in the telecommunications, fire security and data industries must be performed by a registered cabler.

It's the running/installing of cabling that's in question.. not just plugging connectors in.

Now IF you ask them weather pre made cables comes under the definition of customer cabling , I wonder what the response would be ?

[mtv]

I have had a variety of roles including installing split airconditioners, pc networking, test and tag. years ago I also held my disconnect reconnect licence so I am by no means a backyard handy man and have infact reported dodgy unsafe installations.

My reference to handyman installations was in relation to non-compliant cabling installations I often see... I did not direct it at you personally.

I agree, the ACMA email responses you received suggest they misunderstood your requirements and intentions and their response may be misconstrued.

The rules are the rules. If there is any doubt, ACMA must abide by those same rules.

If you have been installing data cabling, the same rules apply and you MUST be a registered cabler to perform data cabling. (unless all you are doing is plugging in patch leads at a frame, etc).

There are various accreditations required for air conditioning installations too... but that's a whole different topic.

Regardless of the ACMA cabling rules issue, you will still require a security equipment installer registration from Victoria Police.

There's really no point debating the issue further, as you said you are going to do the required courses and become licensed/registered.

Sorry if you were offended, but if you don't understand the rules and regulations that apply to the work you intend to offer professionally and you need to ask such questions in a public forum and then question the answers received by those already licensed/registered, then you clearly need to learn... which you have said you intend to do, which I'm sure will be of great benefit to you.

[mtv]

Now IF you ask them weather pre made cables comes under the definition of customer cabling , I wonder what the response would be ?

One would hope they would follow their own rules in their response and advise it depends if those pre-made cables are to be concealed/fixed or not, whether they must be installed by a registered cabler or not.

[bet2win]

To say yourself some possible problems in the future, get your cablers registration and your security licence. End of story.

Illegal wiring can cost you alot of money. Even if they inspect it years later, YOU are still resposible for that wiring as long as it hasnt been changed.

[impure]

Hey guys I just thought id share my email i recieved today from ACMA. I am not trying to cause an argument but you must see why there is some confusion around these setups. It doesnt seem to be cut and dry, as i said I am happy to get licenced or whatever is required and will most likely do it anyway. Thanks guys.

Dear Mr Miller


As indicated previously,


There are no longer any cabling licenses for telecommunications cabling installers the licenses have been replaced by cabling registrations


A cabling registration is only required if you intend to install telecommunications customer cabling i.e. cables that are installed and connected to or intended to be connected to a telecommunications network – these are cables include Cat5, Cat6, fibre optic cabling the old telephone “2-pair” etc.


The cables to these cameras appear to be a co-axial cable for the camera video connected to the DVR by a BNC connector and a power cable – neither of which are telecommunications customer cables.


As such, the cables associated with these cameras would not be categorised as telecommunications customer cabling and, from the ACMA’s viewpoint, you do not need to hold a cabling registration to install them.


Whether you require any other licenses or qualifications from the electrical industries viewpoint is a matter you would have to raise with them.


Regards

[watchdog]

That contradicts what they told me. They told me that ALL cabling BEHIND a device that COULD be connected to the phone network MUST be done by a licenced (registered) cabler. I have this in writing.

[impure]

Thats what I mean about greay area, as I have in writing the above, so for arguments sake the open cabler licence isnt required according to the amca which has been put in writing, and if i call them observation cameras as opposed to security the police one isnt needed either?

I clearly stated my intentions, the equipment used, and where and how it will be installed and have been told that the licence isnt needed, as i said i will get it anyway which will allow more scope, but technically i could install them now with nothing as far as the ACMA were concerned.

[impure]

That contradicts what they told me. They told me that ALL cabling BEHIND a device that COULD be connected to the phone network MUST be done by a licenced (registered) cabler. I have this in writing.

Does this also apply to network attached storage devices, routers etc etc?

[intelliGEORGE]

My interpretation is that a restricted cabling licence is for those who wish to perform cabling work behind a compliant device (e.g. alarm panel, modem, or customer switching system) where the compliant device is labeled in accordance with the "Telecommunications Labeling (Customer Equipment and Customer Cabling) Notice 2001" I.e Carries the A-Tick.

[Drift]

George, it also allows works on residential properties and those with <10 incoming lines and no MDF/IDF.

impure, even with that definition from ACMA, you'll still require a registration for fixed cabling between the dvr and router. Just get a registration and save yourself any hassles.

[watchdog]

The ACMA also told me that they only act upon complaints made to them so if no one complains then you won't get caught. It is NOT black & white , there is (as usual) a large grey area to enable the legal proffession to get their cut.