Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 35 of 35

Thread: Industry Standards?

  1. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    483
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 117 Times in 85 Posts
    Rep Power
    192
    Reputation
    1019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AdRock View Post
    Re the DEOL, here in SA, all though my training there was nothing to say you have to fit DOEL, only single EOL at the detector (or as close as possible as mentioned above) As most panels have EOL in line, if the cable is tampered with or cut the panel will go into alarm so I'm not sure why they would make DEOL compulsory?
    Because the single EOL device can be bypassed while the system is disarmed and keep the input sealed for an inside job, where a DEOL tamper should be monitored 24hrs and at the very least throw a system fault if not an actual alarm
    Last edited by TheAlarmGuy; 25-05-13 at 06:43 PM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to TheAlarmGuy For This Useful Post:

    AdRock (26-05-13)



  • #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    347
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 114 Times in 66 Posts
    Rep Power
    239
    Reputation
    1527

    Default

    Which for sure, in banks, public places, schools etc- is important but not necessary for a house.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAlarmGuy View Post
    Because the single EOL device can be bypassed while the system is disarmed and keep the input sealed for an inside job, where a DEOL tamper should be monitored 24hrs and at the very least throw a system fault if not an actual alarm

  • The Following User Says Thank You to MCman For This Useful Post:

    AdRock (26-05-13)

  • #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
    Rep Power
    138
    Reputation
    150

    Default

    There is a recognised Cert III in Electronic Security, it is run through a number of RTO's and up here in Qld thru Skills tech. My industry association (not ASIAL) is pushing for this to become a mandatory requirement for licensing up here in Qld, but we are getting resistence from the dogdy operators that have no technical background and could not even tell you Ohms Law. It is Nationally recognised whereas the one run by ASIAL says something about "may assit in other qualifications". Why spend the money I am about to enrol as a mature age apprentice and I get $15000 from the government and pay no course fees and that includes my RPL from my radio tech days and 25 years in the industry that private RTO's want to charge me $2400 for. So there is a course and everyone needs to push to make it mandatory in ALL states. As we have folks from NSW fly up here, get a licence and fingerprints and then go back south and get their NSW licence under mutual recogonition, avoiding the qualification requirements.

  • #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    208
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 33 Times in 27 Posts
    Rep Power
    165
    Reputation
    484

    Default

    For manpower they fly up there and get the licence so they didnt have to have the P licence. The tech licence in NSW is a tick in a box

  • #25
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by celica71 View Post
    It is time we had a trade certification in place such as the electrical industry where it is simply illegal to do security installation etc without being licensed.
    It already is.

    The recurring theme here is for enforcement of existing legislation. Not more laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by itscrowtime View Post
    For manpower they fly up there and get the licence so they didnt have to have the P licence. The tech licence in NSW is a tick in a box
    The provisional licencing scheme has been abolished. Although some chucklehead in the Queensland Office of Fair Trading thought it would be a good idea to demand that monitoring operators interstate be Queensland licenced if they were going to monitor premises in Queensland. Ridiculous.

  • #26
    Junior Member Muzza78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    210

    Default

    Just like Heath inspectors do undercover tactics to see if servos and corner store shop keepers will sell cigarettes to minors we need our governing body to be more pro active about catching the non licenced vendors and installers, I think everybody is sick of paying for licences individual and masters and quite clearly there not worth anything. How may times do the honest good guys in the industry lose a job to the sparky or fridgy or handy man turn security professional who's also bought the crap gear from some eBay site of mr Wong out the back of a factory bay sells anything you bring over in a container ship.

    Unfortunately this lack of enforcement has and will continue to encourage price gouging and shoddy installations, it's not fair I really think our licence fees should be going to some use.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Muzza78 For This Useful Post:

    watchdog (26-05-13)

  • #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    71
    Posts
    244
    Thanks
    71
    Thanked 90 Times in 56 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    619

    Default

    Every State charges for a Security Licence. Where does that money go? Why isn't it used to police the industry and get rid of all the 'shonks'.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Hound-Dog For This Useful Post:

    MCman (26-05-13)

  • #28
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    Muzza78, your comments would be taken a bit more seriously if they weren't unfortunately peppered with racist stereotypes. Sorry to have to break it to you but there are any number of White Anglo-Saxon fifth generation Australians who are every bit as shonky as those you so quickly deride.

    Now, my question to those who are fed up with a lack of enforcement is this. Besides having a bitch about it here, what have you done about it? Have you written to Ministers (note not the regulators, but Ministers)? That is the only way to effect change.

    NSW isn't quite there yet but SLED are in the process of forming an enforcement squad which will create a few waves through the industry. One challenge though will be finding people who aren't on their radar e.g. unlicenced operators. That will take some more thought.

  • #29
    Junior Member Muzza78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    210

    Default

    Common Dan
    You can't tell me you don't agree stereo types aside I was called to do a quote for 8 cameras and dvr and a 8 zone alarm panel in a two storey house now given its easier and safer with two people I put all this into my quote the customer says don't worry about the second tech ill foot your ladder my reply was no my insurances won't allow for that and it's more than just a ladder holder that is required. He then showed me handwritten quote from a guy that runs a electronics shop and does security on the side ( I looked him up he has no licence) and there was three prices scratched on the paper the last being 1400 cash.

    You mention it will take some thought for sled to find people under the radar, well if enough promoting of enforcement will be done you'll have every decent operator out there being soldiers trying to keep their industry strong and viable

    Maybe make a few announcements through media about the laws and regulations first so the people unknowingly doing this get a chance to either become licenced or cease the activity

    And no I didn't match the price or do the job it was just another waste of my time going there to see this happen again

    Which minister should we write to and will they even take any notice

  • #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney :P~~~
    Posts
    1,051
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 74 Times in 54 Posts
    Rep Power
    246
    Reputation
    657

    Default

    I agree, we pay and pay yet jaycar and other stores can sell ymcha crap over the counter, life goes on and no one is prosecuted, why bother even re applying for a license?

    Don't get me started on Asials tech grading and training programme.

  • #31
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    Muzza78, it would vary from state to state but your local MP would be a good start. The Minister of Police is also relevant. There's no point beating up the regulators, e.g SLED, OFT etc. as they merely administer the legislation rather than drafting it.

    It would also be worth beating up your trade association about it as well. Particularly given that in NSW they will have to try harder to retain members now that membership is not compulsory.

  • #32
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Roma Qld
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    139
    Reputation
    40

    Default

    Well I thought I would drag this one back up with regards to the standards and what we are seeing in South Western Qld.

    Currently we are seeing more and more insurance companies and brokers requiring training records for Techs as well as sign off by those techs on compliance of alarms installed and maintained. We started out with banks years ago going through to make sure everything was as required to standards etc and ow we are seeing it more and more into regular business, chemists, newsagents and even shops like $2 junk stores on national contracts and requiring sign off on compliance and training.

    It was always going to be the case that this is the way the standards would start to be enforced and I for one are very happy as work has picked up big time as all these companies go back to their old alarm system tech company and ask for all this and sign off on annual maintence and get nothing so come looking for appropriately trained and certified to do maintence and sign off.

    Things might be slowly moving into the correct direction, well for me out here they are.

  • #33
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    Romaqld,

    That's very interesting.

    I've casually observed the opposite trends with insurers caring much less about standards and solely being interested in growing their market share. Typically this would involve taking a customer at the word at the commencement of a policy and only using non-compliance etc. as a means to evade a claim later.

    For example asking the customer to confirm whether they have a "monitored alarm system" but not specifying AS2201.2 etc.

    Customer says "Yes" (because he assumes incorrectly that the shonk who purports to do monitoring actually does so) and the policy commences. Then they learn the hard way. Maybe. Often they don't.

  • #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Roma Qld
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    139
    Reputation
    40

    Default

    Maybe Dan out here it could well be driven by Brokers or similar, we have had several who have their annual renewal come through and the insurance company has said get us all these details for your claims about monitored alarm system.

    I will have to see if I can get my hands on a copy of the section out of the letter they have got for this latest customer.

  • #35
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by romaqld View Post
    I will have to see if I can get my hands on a copy of the section out of the letter they have got for this latest customer.
    I would love to review that.

    It may be isolated and they have had their own claims history which warrants the insurer taking a closer look at them and their clientele.

  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •