Security company, initiative lacking.

**hughdman** · 13-03-12, 12:57 AM

I have my alarm at my business fully monitored.
On Friday I received a call saying that the glass breakage detector had tripped.

The guard came out and he reported a small hole in the glass. I received a phone call stating this and requested more information. It was then I received a callback saying there was a 20c size hole with a crack in the glass leading from it. I asked the length of the crack which they replied they were unsure.

I decided to drive to my shop and was startled to see my whole front door glass had been smashed and pushed threw. There was also a cabinet smashed in my shop with a few goodies stolen.

After I arrived shortly after the patrol man came to check the place out. I said what was I to do and he said your company would of notified the police. we arranged for the glazier and I left 3 hours later.

What is evident is the criminal waited for the guard to leave then went in for another go.

I found out today the police weren't notified and by looking at the alarms going off the criminal could of been in the shop for quite a while.

I rang up my security company and said why weren't the police notified and they said the instructions were to always send a guard out 1st.

My problem is the alarm company at the time were the only one privy to all the alarms going off simultaneously suggesting someone was in the shop and they call the guard back. I mean where is the commonsense.

Where would be my port of call, the security company is going to get the complaint dept to call me back within 21 days.

Surely they have a duty of care, as I said to the company, they let a crime happen and did nothing to stop it. Sending a guard who arrived 20 minutes later is pointless as what are they going to do if confronted by the criminal.

Thoughts please.

**Drift** · 13-03-12, 01:47 AM

Gone are the days that police will respond without keyholders present in WA and with the standards pertaining to patrol response allowing a 60 min maximum respond time, the chances you'll actually catch someone on site are slim to none. Another thing that could have come into play here is that your system (if complying to AS2201.1), will only allow for one activation per zone per armed period thus preventing runaway. Now, depending on the system, there are various settings that may allow it to transmit subsequent alarms without ativating the sirens following the initial activation hence maintaining compliance.

The other thing that needs to be considered here is your alarm response procedures. If youve asked to have your system responded to in a specific manor and the company has complied with your request, given that you're not satisfied, now would be the time to review those procedures. The companies duty of care extends to responding per your requested response. It would also be pertinent at this time to conduct a full review of your physical and electronic security to ensure it still meets your requirements based on the risk profile of your premises.

**bss904** · 13-03-12, 08:24 AM

what did your camera's show you happened?

I would be asking the CMS for a full activity printout, and a full actioning schedule printout.

Time for a serious security review of your business before your insurance company tells you what your new minimum requirements are going to be.

**Hound-Dog** · 13-03-12, 12:13 PM

Agreed. Check with the CMS to see what instructions they followed. Get a report from them for police and insurance purposes.
Of course, I wonder if the guard did all he could to secure the premises after discovering a breach, even a 20 cent size one!

**hughdman** · 13-03-12, 12:52 PM

I took over the business which already had the monitorred security with it.
I asked the response team what the requested actions were and they said, Send a guard out to all alarms. No mention of police involvement.

As I have stated, the alarm company is the only one privvy to all the alarms going off, the dickhead there has just requested another guard come out to have a look.

I actually beat the guard out there the 2nd time round as I was responding to the first alarm.

A comedy of errors if you ask me.

To me its like booking your car in to get the tyres replaced and the guy noticing you have no brakes but he's just following your request and replaces the tyres, that night you smash into another car and the mechanic just shrugging his shoulders and saying "you only ask me to swap the tyres"

If the imbecile at the monitoring centre can't make a decision, he could of at least nitified me.

**Drift** · 13-03-12, 02:05 PM

I'd suggest changing your procedures if you're not happy with the response. The operator is only doing what's been presented to him on screen as per your instructions. Clients often complain when monitoring steps outside of their instructions in order to provide what they perceive to be better service in the best interests of the client. They can't win. Further to that, if they step outside of your requested response and the proverbial hits the fan, any subsequent investigation may well implicate the provider regardless of the response being to the clients benifit.

Don't blame the operator or the company for responding as per the requirements that YOU have put in place or KNOW to have been in place from the previous owner. If you're not happy, change the procedures to suit you're specific requirements.

**hughdman** · 13-03-12, 02:25 PM

I have changed the instructions now, I have asked the operator if they have confirmed a break in to pick up the phone and push 0 three times.

I'm not the smartest person, but if I was presented with all those alarms and having just spoken to me about the first incident, I wouldn't probably call me back and say, what would you like me to do.

As per the instructions, the instructions were to always send a guard, so I questioned them why did I receive a phone call, they replied they always call the client, they seem to have some rules in concrete and some ab-lib.

The police have also said they should have been called.

and Drift they can Win, no-one from the security came out to review the procedures when I took over. they only came out to get the direct debit and the contract resigned. So they have the priorities in the right place. I would call reviewing the procedures a normal practice.

Also Drift my security company, was taken over by ADT and it seemed that the instructions weren't carried over as sometimes my alarm used to go off and when i was with signature the guard would come out, and I'd greet a yellow slip under my door, when adt took over they rang me and said what would you like to do.

My problem is, if they knew someone was in my shop ie glass breakage detector goes off, front door detector then goes off then 360 degree sensors thru out the shop go off, haven't they got a moral responsibility to call the police. I'm not above the law, but you are implying if I haven't told them to report a crime to the police then they can just go back to there merry old way.

**Drift** · 13-03-12, 02:46 PM

I can understand your frustration, but do you actually know what activated during the incident? Further to that, even a multiple alarm activation is not proof of a crime in progress.

The best thing you could have done in this cassis revue your response which you say you have now done.

**PANDATECH** · 13-03-12, 07:59 PM

The sad thing is that this state of affairs has been brought about by police over-regulation removing any shred of common sense applying to the alarm industry. It reminds me of the home owner who called police to report that he had shot an intruder after initial disinterest from police about attending. When the police arrived a few minutes later to the shooting he showed them the photos he had "shot".

**watchdog** · 13-03-12, 08:57 PM

Looks like the response company I use has shut up shop without telling anyone (or telling me ). Nice way to find out when the client & monitoring centre rings to tell you that no one showed up for an alarm activation.
( glassbreak then multiple PIRs then entry door ). I'm pissed off.

**itscrowtime** · 14-03-12, 01:13 AM

You could also change your response plan with ADT, if you change it so that you receive a phone call when an alarm triggers you then allow yourself the opportunity to make the best decision for your business.
ADT also have a lot of training for their staff and they are trained to follow the protocol so essentially the operator followed your instructions, they do not allow their staff to make decisions outside the protocol.

**aaronpwa** · 14-03-12, 02:10 AM

I work in a CMS in Perth.

Multiple alarms are classed as TWO different alarms activating. We
Can only report alarms to the police if two different zones activate.

I would ask for a report before making assumptions. It could be only one alam was received.

Police will usually not respond unless a key holder, or guard company was attending.

In my CMS if the note was to send guard for all alarms, the guard would be sent on the first alarm. Any further activations, would involve updating the guard and contacting the police.

We would contact the key holder in event of confirmed break in.

**hughdman** · 14-03-12, 12:50 PM

OK Here is a list of events that happen.

1. Phone call received saying glass breakage detecter alarm off, small hole was in glass in front door, site is clear/secure.
2. I ask for more details, they say that there is a hole size of 20c piece and their is a crack in the glass, I ask for more details and they say that is all the guard can give.
3. I am pissed as it seems MR/Mrs Vague is reporting on the damage.
4. I drive down there, I'm about 20 minutes away, when I get there, the front door is completely smashed and pushed thru, glass cabinet is smashed, goods taken.
5. Guard turns up, while I'm still in car, on phone to Monitoring.
6. Guard calls Monitoring.
7. Guard tells me since monitoring advised, They will call Police.
8. Organize glazier.
9. Guard was responding to multiple alarms going off.

So we can all see what happened, Crim has smashed glass, and alarm has scared off the guy, Crim sees guard leaving and comes back and finishes job.

There were several alarms going off the second time around.

They didn't contact me the second time around as I beat the guard there.

The only way I've found out about all the alarms was via the report.

Moral of the story, I don't know but I have lost a lot of faith in the guards and my company. Show me logic and I'll understand.

Also my security company never called the police.

**Hound-Dog** · 14-03-12, 01:21 PM

Come on guys! An alarm occurs, the instruction is to send a patrol. The patrol discovers property damage! The next thing to happen is police involvement, and the guard remains on site until the key holder arrives! What is so difficult to understand about that?
I sometimes wonder what sort of training these guards actually get! Like the guard who attended a car dealership due to an alarm. Reported all secure. Next morning one complete pane of glass is shattered on the road where the guard had to walk to check the premises!

**watchdog** · 14-03-12, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by hughdman

OK Here is a list of events that happen.

1. Phone call received saying glass breakage detecter alarm off, small hole was in glass in front door, site is clear/secure.
2. I ask for more details, they say that there is a hole size of 20c piece and their is a crack in the glass, I ask for more details and they say that is all the guard can give.
3. I am pissed as it seems MR/Mrs Vague is reporting on the damage.
4. I drive down there, I'm about 20 minutes away, when I get there, the front door is completely smashed and pushed thru, glass cabinet is smashed, goods taken.
5. Guard turns up, while I'm still in car, on phone to Monitoring.
6. Guard calls Monitoring.
7. Guard tells me since monitoring advised, They will call Police.
8. Organize glazier.
9. Guard was responding to multiple alarms going off.

So we can all see what happened, Crim has smashed glass, and alarm has scared off the guy, Crim sees guard leaving and comes back and finishes job.

There were several alarms going off the second time around.

They didn't contact me the second time around as I beat the guard there.

The only way I've found out about all the alarms was via the report.

Moral of the story, I don't know but I have lost a lot of faith in the guards and my company. Show me logic and I'll understand.

Also my security company never called the police.

I can understand how you feel but let me ask you this. How do you think the events should have unfolded ?

**hughdman** · 14-03-12, 03:01 PM

1st No Break in would of been nice.

Ok

To start with, we live in an age where most people have a smart phone.
I would of liked to see a picture of the glass when the 1st guard arrived, if the guards can't do this or don't maybe it's a good idea to start.

The guard was a foreigner to Aus as his english/literacy skills are lacking as the description he gave was apalling at best.

I would of liked it if the guard did stay till either I arrived or the police, as i said a crime had occur, there may of been some fingerprints.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I do believe with all the facts the monitoring guy had he should of drawn a conclusion that there was a burglary in place and it should of been reported to the police.

My emotions are more in check today, I'm still disappointed and I can see errors on all parts.

I'm a firm believer in Common sense should always prevail, but noone displayed any on this night, and if they are unable to make a decision, a courtesy phone call would be appreciated. They should of kept me notified at all times.

I would of

**aaronpwa** · 14-03-12, 04:08 PM

I can totally understand why you are upset.

- how many alarms activated during the initial breakin? if the CMS only received one alarm activation, police cannot be called.

- when you arrived, and the guard was on the phone to the CMS they could have been about to dispatch the police but thought because you have arrived on site, there was no need.

Had i handled the alarm, i would have called you and asked how you would have liked me to handle the situation.

" It's security calling, we have received a call from a guard at 123 fake street, this is what's happened, how would you like me to proceed"

Get a print out, and post it here. I'm sure we can offer opinions.

**hughdman** · 14-03-12, 04:22 PM

Sorry when the guard turned up I was on the phone to monitoring.

Only 1 alarm during 1st that was the glass breakage.

I would of preferred you to handle it, there excuse is that they followed my instructions and when all the alarms went off they just sent another guard.

Yes they have followed my instructions, but as the op has said no inititiave has been shown, and I must be above the law as well as the monitoring company, I jjust want to know their legal obligations.

**watchdog** · 14-03-12, 06:46 PM

Unfortunately we live in a time where initiative is beaten out of people. Have a look at post No 10. I spent a few hours chasing that down today. The monitoring centre I use is top notch. Anyone who saw that sequence of reports would have concluded it was a legitimate (?) breakin. When he couldn't get the patrol response that was supposed to take place he didn't give up but hunted down another local response business to have a look. That company had no obligation to take on the job but did so even though the risk was that they woukdn't get paid. There was no breakin & the cause of the alarms are still to be determined. The result of this is a very happy customer because of the effort everyone put in. I'm very happy because a bad outcome was averted by people using their initiative & going one step further than was required. I rang the patrol company that attended & after thanking them arranged for all my response work to go over to them. I rang the monitoring centre , found out the person who put in the effort , rang the managing director & sang his praises. I'm like a pig in shit & I'll give them a plug. Monitoring Centre - John Derek Security Response Company - Southern Cross Security

Well done fellas

**sixfourzero** · 14-03-12, 07:48 PM

[QUOTE=hughdman;471957]

I rang up my security company and said why weren't the police notified and they said the instructions were to always send a guard out 1st.

You seemed to have answered the your questions yourself. The instructions to your account would state something similar to " Patrols to all alarms, After hours on genuines". Judging by the fact you got a call on the first attendance to report the small hole. (This being a "genuine incident" would be the reason the monitoring station called you.) "Patrols have attended to a glass-break alarm at your premises and have found a small hole in your window. The hole is not big enough for someone to get inside. Do you want shutters, sir?"

You wanted more information, and not much more was available at the time. Reality being what it is, patrols (and for that matter the police) would not be too detailed in any primary report. "Small hole in window approx 2.5 cm2 with 20 cm of spider cracks around it - appears no entry gained. -
End Of Report"

They would not take photos of the crack and email or sms it to you at the time, or have police attend and establish any kind of crime scene. The guard MAY photograph it and use it if they make a more detailed report back at the office.

It would appear that you got to the second set of alarms before patrols. (This is the great concern with sending after hours to alarms although in your case it was a fluke as you were on your way to check the 20 cent piece size hole in your window.) You could have been confronting one possibly more possibly armed offenders!!!

I would suggest you review your alarm response procedures to "Call after hours to all alarms as well as sending nearest patrols". Always offering police (bearing in mind that police do not necessarily give a high priority to intruder alarms unless they are multi-breaking AND keys are attending)