ICAC and Kings Security

**controlroom Op** · 20-06-12, 05:34 PM

I was also interested to see current icac investigations that are ongoing and the last one in the list got my attention.

**intelliGEORGE** · 20-06-12, 09:20 PM

LOL @ pg 149T item 10.

**TheAlarmGuy** · 20-06-12, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE

LOL @ pg 149T item 10.

I don't think she's using that money for her boat though

**intelliGEORGE** · 23-06-12, 01:14 AM

The ICAC is branching out.

**JSSC** · 23-06-12, 10:15 AM

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch....After reading Daniel Pauls website, what i love the most is the utter B**LS**T you read under "commitment and ethics" (the page title laughable within itself). Here's just a snippet!!

Exceeding Expectations
Security Consultants International endeavour to develop a close relationship with our clients to ensure the advice and services we provide exceed the expectations of our client. We are not aligned with manufacturers, suppliers, or systems integrators and therefore have no agenda to push a particular brand, product, or provider.

Cost Savings
Security Consultants International provide innovative advice designed to save time, money, and effort. Through a comprehensive understanding of the industry, we will assist you to identify and implement cost saving opportunities. Continually evaluating better ways and better products to provide our valued customers with reliable and sound advice.

As for the CCTV suppliers involved....the term scumbags springs to mind. The sad truth is, it's no surprise.

**downunderdan** · 23-06-12, 10:21 AM

Here's what I learned from ICAC today. When a supplier quotes you $156,000 for some hardware, you can get them to knock 146 grand off the price...

It must be nice for outlaw bikie gangs to know they aren't the only scum in the security industry.

**bss904** · 23-06-12, 11:29 AM

I think the original estimated timespan for this hearing of 2 weeks was a bit ambitious considering how far they have progressed in a week.
I wonder who's cleaning the boat at the moment.

**PANDATECH** · 23-06-12, 04:27 PM

PANDATECH can now also reveal that his wife is also known as "CASH GIRL" but can't get her to clean PANDATECH's boat.

**No Brainer** · 25-06-12, 12:55 PM

JSSC - How much Committment & Ethics would you like at a price of course ? LOL

There has only been two witnesses grilled to date and the majority of replies are "Ï dont recall". I would imagine that we are going to see a lot of these over the next few weeks.

I find it interesting how a business can be run and how government entities would conduct business with directors with such bad memories, I actually wonder if they remember to pay themselves each week ? Thankfully the Commissioner is not an idiot and if we can work out whats been going on i'm sure he can.

Investigation has now been extended and expanded to drag in more players that have been mentioned along the way. Is anyone really that surprised ? From what I hear the goings on have been common knowledge but no one has been able to do anything about it.

Makes for fascinating reading, Im quite happy to see my taxes at work on this one.

**controlroom Op** · 28-06-12, 12:44 AM

Well to date i now see other security companies being dragged in. And i look forward to what the commission recommends to stop this BS in this industry. I have no pity for anyone named in this commission and the way they have behaved. I actually hope they expand further and check out all tenders.

**controlroom Op** · 28-06-12, 01:05 AM

I also recommend they check out all consultants and their qualifications and what tenders they are invovled in. I also want the industry to question class 2 licence in relations to tech's and their qualifications.

**controlroom Op** · 28-06-12, 01:09 AM

In relation to my last comment i mean an operator that works in an control room has to jump through hoops to get licenced but i dont see a tech getting a criminal check what is wrong with that !!!.

**controlroom Op** · 28-06-12, 01:56 AM

or may add what checks do consultants have?

**downunderdan** · 28-06-12, 08:39 AM

Controlroom op:

1)

"I have no pity for anyone named in this commission"

Careful. I suggest you read the transcripts more carefully. There were a few people (incumbents) who haven't done anything wrong amidst the scumbags. They are named also.

2)

"i dont see a tech getting a criminal check"

My comments only pertain to NSW, however to be performing this work techs would most certainly require a Security Industry Licence which DOES require a criminal history check. The operative word of course, is "history". That you don't have a criminal record doesn't mean that you aren't a criminal - you just haven't been caught and convicted yet. It is also current at a given point in time. You could go and engage in criminal conduct tomorrow. I don't see how licencing is going to prevent people going rogue or acting in an unethical manner, short of 'SLED' introducing a Thoughtcrime division.

3)

"or may add what checks do consultants have"

In NSW, consultants are also required to have a licence with aforesaid checks performed. I have previously indicated to legislators that this affects international consultants who it could be argued are breaking the law by plying their trade in NSW.There are also plenty of people acting de facto as "consultants" with no licence, particularly in IT Security.

However those people mentioned at ICAC, to the best of my knowledge did have licences, so I'm not sure your argument is relevant to this matter. If they were scumbags, it wasn't a licencing issue. In other states I can't say what the prevailing situation is. At least one of those named was a member in good standing of a number of professional associations all of which include ethics in their charter. These things are never a guarantee and one can only hope that if found guilty, these people are given penalties which reflect the positions of trust they held, akin to police officers going bad.

**Hound-Dog** · 28-06-12, 08:47 AM

I agree that is is difficult to become a control room operator. There is a reason for that. When you sit in front of that computer screen, you have access to thousands of clients details. Names, addresses, voice codes. The sort of information that needs to be treated with the utmost confidentiality!
Granted, a consultant may be able to gain some knowledge about his clients, but nowhere near the same as the control room op. The consultant must still know what he is selling, in order to be a 'good' consultant, but even if he is a bad consultant, he has little chance of 'crashing' the system.

**PANDATECH** · 28-06-12, 01:08 PM

ICAC are only interested in Public sector corruption in NSW so I guess they won't be going over all the Private sector tenders.

**MegapixelMan** · 28-06-12, 04:28 PM

I love it and guys never thought this happened in the past and ever happens in any other industry... Never taken a client to lunch or sweetened the deal with some extra works to secure a project.... Say Hi to mary poppins when you buy your next camera....

This is just business I personally don't agree with it but it's rife in every industry... Some poeple just get caught and we then hang them for it... PACOM sell direct to End Users customers every day and never hear threads about people boycotting them because iof it...

MM

**controlroom Op** · 28-06-12, 06:27 PM

Dan are you aware that in previous years (about 5 years ago) that all you had to do was tick a class 2 licence on an application form if you already held a class 1 licence and it was issued to you.

I have seen this done and know one large company had all their controlroom operators get tech licences with out any qualifications what so ever.

I wonder if this still happens!

Ohh and my previous comment about icac going over all tenders i meant gov't ones. Didnt think it was required to spell it out as i was speaking on topic.

**downunderdan** · 28-06-12, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by controlroom Op

Dan are you aware that in previous years (about 5 years ago) that all you had to do was tick a class 2 licence on an application form if you already held a class 1 licence and it was issued to you..

Non-NSW readers can stop here.

That is still the case for *some* licence categories in NSW. However it is not (and hasn't since at least 1997) been the case for all. For example, 2A (Consultant) or 2D (Trainer) require a Cert IV in Security (Risk Management) or Training and Assessment respectively.

If however you wanted 2B - Security Seller, 2C - Locksmith, 2E - Barrier Equipment Specialist or 2F - Electronic Equipment Specialist then yes, you could certainly tick the box and win a prize. Bear in mind however that a licence is not the same as a qualification. There were additional rules e.g. ACA Cabling permits etc. which would certainly apply, as well as industrial requirements e.g. a locksmith apprenticeship which were implicit and couldn't be validated by SLED and formerly the SIR. Whether or not companies abided by these requirements is another matter and non-compliance is rife, either through malevolence or more often in my observation, ignorance.

I have seen this done and know one large company had all their controlroom operators get tech licences with out any qualifications what so ever.

Not sure what you mean by "tech licence". If you're talking about a 2F - Electronic Security Specialist (whatever that means) then yes. Tick the box, win a prize.

However if they were working in a NSW monitoring centre they would quite likely require a 1E licence category which absolutely does require training (albeit largely irrelevant and a waste of time but that's another matter). The only possible exception is if the monitoring centre was proprietary and in-house e.g. an organisation monitoring their own properties. There is some wiggle-room there regarding the 1E, but the typical monitoring centre, ADT, Chubb, ours etc. would absolutely require operators to have a 1E if they are in NSW. If they don't have one, well... Does that clarify?

Anyway, much of this is due to change later in the year thanks to the new NSW legislation. That includes getting rid of superfluous licence categories. I am hoping that the new Bigger Badder SLED will start rounding up a lot of non-compliant companies and their staff which will benefit those companies and individuals trying to do the right thing. I daresay what's happening at ICAC will draw some attention onto the electronic side of things as it's clearly not just the manpower sector which is deserving of some scrutiny.

**downunderdan** · 29-06-12, 12:57 AM

From yesterday's transcript, referring to the cameras installed around The Gap as a suicide prevention tool:

If I could just take you to the first page of that, an email from yourself to Daniel Paul copied to others which is 15 July, 2009 at 10.22pm. You’ve written, “Not sure what the go is with Dell and marshmallow tongs(?),” that’s a reference to other emails “but I just heard we have won The Gap job for added vals, our solution offered special Pelco monitors that see dead people before they jump.” And then Mr Paul writes to you, “Throw in a trampoline and I’ll see what I can do.”

Classy guys.