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Thread: Garmin City Nav Sensis V Navteq

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    Default Garmin City Nav Sensis V Navteq

    The latest City Navigator Au & NZ 2013.20 is now using map data supplied by NAVTEQ in place of the Whereis/Sensis data used in previous maps.


    I have done a little testing of the Navteq map & made the following observations;

    * Plus1 - For my area the map is more accurate in regard to rural road location & naming.

    * Plus1 - The speed limit is no longer displayed when driving on our local rural roads & some Major town roads, its actually a plus 1 as the previous Sensis maps had most of the speed limits on [B] & [C] roads incorrect anyway.

    * Minus 1 - The rural road display threshold on some [B] & most [C] roads is around 700m Zoom according to MS.
    This causes the rural [B] or [C] road you are driving on to disappear when the auto zoom on my NUVI 1490T zooms out at 90 km/h & the road is not visible until you reduce speed below 70 km/h.
    The roads I was on to day have a 100 km/h limit.
    So the roads blink on as you slow down for a corner then off again as you accelerate down the straights.
    This does not happen with the old Sensis Map - the rural road display threshold is around 1.5 km to 5 km Zoom according to MS for the older mapset 2013.10 & previous.

    * Minus 1 - the search feature no longer includes my property address number, the road is present but not the number.
    It took until 2010 for my address number & the Road to appear in the find function on the Sensis maps, now the address has gone again, so I'll have to give directions to people & services (couriers etc.) if they are using the latest Garmin maps.

    Any one else got any observations positive or negative
    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
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    With the nuvi 3590 I have, I've noticed on the Sensis maps, POI icons for banks, petrol stations, food outlets appearing as real icons of the business, like McDonalds, 7-Eleven, CommBank, BankWest, Westpac, BP, Caltex, etc....

    With the Navteq ones, they only show as the standard Fuel, $, Knife/Fork icons.

    Also, Terrace is abbreviated as 'Trc' on the Navteq maps, hence the Australian TTS voices pronounce it as 'T R C', not Terrace. This also stuffs up voice commands for my nuvi 3590, I have to say 'T R C' as well, otherwise it will throw back some other weird street name.

    I've noticed some suburban streets (inner west of Sydney), where Sensis displayed the street's speed limit on the GPS, but the Navteq ones do not.

    I wish Garmin stuck to using Sensis maps for us Aussies.

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    Thanks Toby, I reckon if I had a 3590, I'd go back to the sensis map 2013.10 & load the Map & ASR files, until they get it right on the Navteq maps.

    We should also go here & file a map error report for the problems encountered.
    Not sure if that will change anything in the near future though.
    This looks more promising
    I guess they can only fix things if they know about it.
    _______________________________________________

    According to the following info the Whereis/Sensis maps should still be available to those units with Lifetime updates??
    So the Sensis maps are out there somewhere, if the info is correct
    Don't know where. I can't find a CN AU NZ 2013.20 update for Garmin with Whereis/Sensis data, they all have NAVTEQ.

    Would be good to here from someone with lifetime updates, if they are getting sensis or navteq on their previously Sensis based NUVI?

    _______________________________________________

    "Map provider change


    All new Garmin portable-navigation units arriving in stores from February 2012 will come equipped with and New Zealand. One of the reasons cited by Garmin for the change from Sensis' Whereis maps to Navteq is that in many parts of the world, Garmin already uses Navteq maps in its navigation devices.
    Owners of a current device who have a paid-up subscription to Garmin's need not worry those devices will still continue to receive the latest Whereis maps whenever the GPS unit is hooked up to a computer."
    Source:
    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby737 View Post
    ..snip

    Also, Terrace is abbreviated as 'Trc' on the Navteq maps, hence the Australian TTS voices pronounce it as 'T R C', not Terrace. This also stuffs up voice commands for my nuvi 3590, I have to say 'T R C' as well, otherwise it will throw back some other weird street name.
    snip.......
    Hey Toby, I was thinking that if you have to pronounce Terrace as T R C, then what does it handle for road & street, can you use the actual words or do you use the abbreviation of "R D" & 'S T'
    Then there's
    Crescent = Cr
    Court = Ct
    Place = Pl
    Lane = Ln
    Etc.
    That would drive me nuts.
    Last edited by Tiny; 05-07-12 at 06:05 PM.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    I am going back to 2013.10 as most of the roads in A.C.T are off to the right on the screen and some streets it looks like i am in a paddock. I have heard navteq was better in rural and sensis better in the city. i have all so noticed noticed since i have updated to 2013.20 that the traffic receiver icon is not all ways there.

    Just in case it makes difference i use a nuvi 250

    SS Dave

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    Thanks SS Dave, sounds like the ACT is a bit of a fail for the Navteq map.
    I had the same problem with the 2010.xx Sensis maps in my area, Central North (middle of nowhere)Tasmania, which was corrected in the 2011.xx Sensis maps.
    It's a real pain when your navigating a rout & the GPS thinks your off the road & tries to recalculate all the time.
    So far the Navteq is more accurate in my area.

    AFAIK, the traffic receiver is a separate program from the map & so shouldn't be affected.
    If the Icon goes off, it just means it has lost reception.
    I don't see the icon here in Tas, however when I go to Sydney its there all the time & very helpful, it rerouted me around some heavy traffic delays & got me to the Airport on time on one of trips.
    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    In the years past I've certainly found Sensis data to be more accurate, and after what I've read here recently I haven't yet updated the Garmin GPS to the latest NAVTEQ maps. However I had time this morning to load them into BaseCamp and compared the 2013.1 Sensis maps to the 2013.2 NAVTEQ, and was suprised with the results.

    I checked a whole bunch of streets and areas around Sydney, Central Coast and the Central West (Bathurst/Mudgee/Oberon and surrounding regional areas - ie small lanes in the back of nowhere) where I knew there had been discrepancies in the past and found no substansial difference between the two, including areas that are relatively new or have only recently (ie 12 months) been updated in the Sensis data. Sensis data is probably better for building info, but I did find was that the NAVTEQ had more details/correct roads for 4WD tracks etc - something I use CN maps for, even though I've also got dedicated 4WD maps as well.

    Routing tests using Mobile PC also showed no (or little) substantial difference between the two maps. Don't know if the results would be the same in a GPS unit though.

    It may be the case, for me at least, that the change to NAVTEQ is not as bad as I first thought. Time will tell I guess...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    what does it handle for road & street, can you use the actual words or do you use the abbreviation of "R D" & 'S T'
    Then there's
    Crescent = Cr
    Court = Ct
    Place = Pl
    Lane = Ln
    Etc.
    Yes you can say the Street & Road as is, but haven't come across the others so not sure whether the TTS would pronounce them correctly or incorrectly.

    I found another quirk where on the Motorways, Navteq abbreviate the motorways as Mtway, so it pronounces them as 'Em Tor Way'.

    Anyways, I've sent a bug issue to Garmin to fix up the Australian TTS for the Navteq quirky street/motorway abbreviations.

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    Both companies use the same basic mapping data (PSMA), so theoretically there should not be much difference between them. It is basically down to how they implement that data. The difference in the way abbreviations are handled means that different TTS rules will be required for the Navteq maps. Something that Garmin have obviously overlooked in the conversion.

    Cheers, Ian
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jards88 View Post
    Both companies use the same basic mapping data (PSMA), so theoretically there should not be much difference between them. It is basically down to how they implement that data. The difference in the way abbreviations are handled means that different TTS rules will be required for the Navteq maps. Something that Garmin have obviously overlooked in the conversion.

    Cheers, Ian
    Sorry Ian, you are incorrect on that.
    PSMA is a government owned Mapping authority.
    Sensis/whereis is owned by Telstra.

    "Google Maps switched from using PSMA Australia (formerly Public Sector Mapping Authority) data to a Sensis database because it wanted more detailed data, according to Sensis."

    So why would they swap suppliers if the data was the same

    Source:
    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Has anyone heard any more on the Sensis/Whereis lifetime map updates I sent Garmin a query so will see if they reply.

    Going by the online Navteq map, it certainly leaves a lot to be desired. I live in the Glenvale, Toowoomba area and there are dozens of mistakes. There are a lot of road reserves that have not been built on but are on the map and roads that have are not on the map. To top it off my road is misnamed and the correct name has been given to an unmade road running off my road. My place is on the outskirts of Toowoomba so not in Suburbia or the sticks.
    I have submitted 8 corrections so far to Navteq Map Reporter, the last one being a general one advising them to use Whereis to update their maps. It will be interesting to see if they comment.
    Sorry about the ramble but these companies give me the irits.
    Last edited by Rodnic; 18-07-12 at 04:39 AM.

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    You can always go back to the Sensis map until the next update comes out.



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    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Thumbs up

    Thanks to pietu you can now have the latest Sensis map as well.



    Cheers, Tiny
    "You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Thanks to pietu you can now have the latest Sensis map as well.



    Apparently not really the latest map at all as I discovered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Hi dat260,

    I installed the 2013.2 sensis on my laptop & it showed fine.
    But you got me to thinking why it doesn't show up for you.

    My laptop did not have 2013.1 installed, & when I did 2013.2 disappeared from menu. My PC had 2013.1 installed & refused to recognize 2013.2

    How interesting
    Further investigation shows that 2013.1 & 2013.2 are the same size & have the same Fid: 2627. This should not be. All maps should have different Fid.
    Maps of the same Fid cannot coexist.
    I have 19 different map sets installed in MapSource all have different Fid:

    According to GmapTool the maps are identical apart from the Header & name.

    My conclusion is 2013.1 & 2013.2 sensis maps are infact the same map set. Not an update.
    Garmin are trying to scam us.
    Last edited by Tiny; 22-07-12 at 07:17 PM.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Apparently not really the latest map at all as I discovered.

    Garmin are trying to scam us.
    The latest map is 2013.2 - not 2012.2. Are you sure you are talking about the right maps?

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    The latest map is 2013.2 - not 2012.2. Are you sure you are talking about the right maps?

    Thanks for that, yes I am talking the 2013 maps, damn confusing when the year we are in is 2012.

    Have edited to previous post & quote thanks to you for picking up my error.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    I installed the 2013.2 sensis on my laptop & it showed fine.
    But you got me to thinking why it doesn't show up for you.
    Thanks I removed most of the previous updates back to about 2009 and it now shows up in the window in map source I think I must have had too many updates installed on pc. my garman was running very poorly since my attempted update today, I ended up deleting 3 map images out of the unit and usied map source to update all good now thanks
    Linton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    I installed the 2013.2 sensis on my laptop & it showed fine.
    But you got me to thinking why it doesn't show up for you.
    Thanks I removed most of the previous updates back to about 2009 and it now shows up in the window in map source I think I must have had too many updates installed on pc. my garman was running very poorly since my attempted update today, I ended up deleting 3 map images out of the unit and usied map source to update all good now thanks
    Linton

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    Wink those are the way they read the navtech data

    if you look at navigon (also garmin) the navtech data is spot on so it must be the way they use the same content in different apps. Well done garmin for using navtech the features are much better

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    same map that navigon use (also a garmin product) so it is the way they read the info in the map not the map itself

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