Garmin City Nav Sensis V Navteq

[peteramjet]

Certainly could be Tiny. Would go a fair way to explaining why changes take so long.

It's a pity they don't release a list of changes with each update as that would clarify the issue one way or another.

[Surething]

Garmin do not issue a 'changelog' for mapping updates [other than when they have to explain why they issue a correcting map version [i.e. XXXX.X1 to fix uber-serious problems in XXXX.X0]. They never have and never will because it opens the floodgates for ppl to note what's been missed and they would rather the info be drip fed in a manageable fashion or better still reported to the map data supplier:

Online to Navteq or Sensis:

https://mapreporter.navteq.com/#dashboard
http://www.whereismaps.com/report-map-corrections.aspx

You can also use Navteq's Here Map Creator to make corrections directly on the map, but you need to register:

http://here.com/mapcreator/

Sensis also used to have an email reporting service but I'm unsure if it's still operating:

anomalies@sensis.com.au

Imo directly to the data provider is quicker than reporting errors directly to Garmin who's mapmakers likely would want to confirm it with Sensis or Navteq in any case before implementing any changes, but it couldn't hurt if you made a report to the data supplier and also Garmin themselves:

https://my.garmin.com/mapErrors/report.faces

[Tiny]

Yes however, to quote Garmin.

We strive to provide our customers with the most economical, accurate and up-to-date electronic maps available. However, features are continually changing, so the data may not reflect the latest modifications and/or additions in your area. You are solely responsible for safe navigation and the prudent use of our mapping products.

That about covers them for out of date map changes.

Reporting will bring it to their attention that people are not overly happy with out of date mapping data.

For my area both Sensis & Navteq have some serious errors that are just a case of old data &/or incorrect data input by the map maker.

[peteramjet]

You can also use Navteq's Here Map Creator to make corrections directly on the map, but you need to register:

http://here.com/mapcreator/

That's all well and good, but the problems are not apparent on the NAVTEQ online map - those maps are up-to-date. The issue is with the data used and provided by Garmin. Garmin only have these errors on the NAVTEQ maps not the Sensis maps.

Imo directly to the data provider is quicker than reporting errors directly to Garmin who's mapmakers likely would want to confirm it with Sensis or Navteq in any case before implementing any changes, but it couldn't hurt if you made a report to the data supplier and also Garmin themselves:

https://my.garmin.com/mapErrors/report.faces

In some circumstances you would be right, but in this case Garmin are the map supplier and they are not providing the most accurate map. NAVTEQ appear to have the correct information on their web maps, but it is Garmin's mapmakers who need to make the changes on their maps.

[Surething]

That's all well and good, but the problems are not apparent on the NAVTEQ online map - those maps are up-to-date. The issue is with the data used and provided by Garmin. Garmin only have these errors on the NAVTEQ maps not the Sensis maps. ......
In some circumstances you would be right, but in this case Garmin are the map supplier and they are not providing the most accurate map. NAVTEQ appear to have the correct information on their web maps, but it is Garmin's mapmakers who need to make the changes on their maps.

Which is why I suggest reporting the errors to both Garmin and the map data provider using the online facility for either Sensis & Navteq. Garmin maps are pretty much about 12 months behind anyway by the time the provider updates the data, supplies it to the mapmakers, the mapmakers implement the changes and finish making and testing and then a new version's released. We will NEVER have completely up-to-date on board maps with the current way they do things. I'm not being overly defensive of Garmin here, but it's just impossible for them to have have their finished maps as 'up to date' as the web page maps.

[Tiny]

They are little more than 12 months out of date.
The errors on both Navteq & Sensis maps for my area are at least 20 years out of date, that's how long I've been living here & the roads that are in error have not changed in that time.

I also have OZTopo & Garmin Topo, both of these have the correct roads - position & names.
Both of these products are more expensive however their data has been accurate for the 6 years I've been using OZTopo & 3 years for Garmin Topo.
The difference I find between these 2 products is in detail of bush trails in way out of the way places that I explore on horse back with my Garmin Etrex Vista HCX.

So I suggest that Garmin is buying very old cheep data for some areas & mixing it with more expensive up to date data for the more populated areas, on their City Nav range of products, to keep the price down on their maps.

[peteramjet]

We will NEVER have completely up-to-date on board maps with the current way they do things. I'm not being overly defensive of Garmin here, but it's just impossible for them to have have their finished maps as 'up to date' as the web page maps.

Granted, there will always be delays.

But my point is the Sensis maps provided by Garmin are more up-to-date then the NAVTEQ ones, yet NAVTEQ are the new supplier.

If Garmin can't get their act together with the NAVTEQ maps then switch back to the data provided by Sensis. The releases may come out less often but at least they are more current.

[Surething]

My personal experience in 'my neck of the woods' is that Navteq are more up to date here. My rural cul-de-sac road has been here for 50 years, Sensis doesn't know I exist and has me as off road down my end of the street. Navteq has it right, including the correct street numbers. The perpetual discussion as to whether S or N are better on Garmin ultimately is influenced as you where you use the unit mostly. I solve the problem when I travel by having both maps with only one selected. I also have an in-car Denso DVD nav unit which uses Sensis maps. Those maps get updated only once a year, the DVD costs $295, is supplied and complied by Sensis using their own map data and it's still not up-to-date when it comes out. My build date Feb 2011 vehicle was supplied with an OEM map data disc V15 which was actually 2009 issue, proudly showing on the disc label 'Updated road network to 2008 UBD Street Directory releases'. At the time V16 had just been released which no doubt had 2009 mapping data. BTW, it doesn't know I exist either of course being Sensis.

Just to be clear, when I said this: 'Garmin maps are pretty much about 12 months behind anyway by the time the provider updates the data, supplies it to the mapmakers, the mapmakers implement the changes and finish making and testing and then a new version's released' I was not saying that the maps would have been up-to-date if they were issued 12 months before anyway. I was only saying that the lead time is about 12 months from the time the provider starts the update process. I totally agree that Garmin/Navteq/Sensis/whoever will continue to carryover errors and omissions from year to year ad nausium. They are only keen to get things as right as possible for the majority of users. Sensis doesn't care about my road, it's showing partly on their map so that's enough. It could be Navteq and their attitude would be the same.

EDIT:
P.S. Almost forgot about this comment:

That's all well and good, but the problems are not apparent on the NAVTEQ online map - those maps are up-to-date. The issue is with the data used and provided by Garmin. Garmin only have these errors on the NAVTEQ maps not the Sensis maps.
..........

The online maps are always going to be more up to date, and that's for the very reason I've stated - the ~12 months lead time. If the online map doesn't show the error you wish to report then they already know about it anyway. If something is wrong in Navteq but not in Sensis map data, Garmin isn't at liberty to correct one with the other provider's data. They probably don't even cross-reference to check when they get a report I guess.

[peteramjet]

My personal experience in 'my neck of the woods' is that Navteq are more up to date here. My rural cul-de-sac road has been here for 50 years, Sensis doesn't know I exist and has me as off road down my end of the street.

Being accurate in rural areas is important and I did some fairly lengthy comparisons when NAVTEQ become the new map provider. Even in rural areas I couldn't find much difference between the 2 providers, however NAVTEQ were certainly better for off-road type usage. That's not saying there are major discrepancies in some rural areas though.

But NAVTEQ still displaying incorrect route names/numbers on all NSW and ACT roads is in another ball park. As mentioned previously, these were major changes that were updated almost immediately in the Sensis map update, but have still not been reflected by NAVTEQ in 4 updates since the changes were implemented.

Reading through a number of GPS forums many Garmin users who are a little tech savvy will only update with the Sensis maps and ignore the NAVTEQ maps. That surely says something about the overall quality of data between the two providers.

[Surething]

All depends on where you are. Period. As far as I'm concerned if there is any doubt over which is better [Sensis for richer POIs, Navteq for local accuracy or vice versa] any Garmin savvy user will have both maps loaded, OEM on-board and the other on a card, with just one selected. Surprisingly that can allow some POI/search functions available on the de-selected map. That happy and little-known quirk is used in China for example. Many tourists have bought a US/EU fw unit when overseas and want to use it in mainland China but may find that the unit doesn't support a CH keyboard in it's firmware. So they load both the Pinyin and CH versions of the Venus shift-corrected map and select only the CH one. But the Pinyin map allows them to search using the EN kb even though it's not selected, and then they can route on the CH map.

So no need to have endless debate over which is better, load both and select the one most suitable for where you are and enjoy the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, the debate may become moot quite soon. The major concern with Sensis data from Garmin, is two-fold imo.
1. The sensis maps are not being updated frequently. Since Garmin started exclusively loading Navteq maps onto their new nuvi range about 2 years ago we've seen about half the Sensis releases [they 'skip' every second version as they have now 2014.20 was followed by 2014.40]. Garmin has an 'out' for dropping the LM crowd too, because if the map data is no longer available from the provider they can unilaterally discontinue the LM subscription. Read what they say, especially this 'as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier':

http://www.garmin.com/en-AU/legal/lmdisclaimer

2. They no longer offer Sensis mapping as an 'after-market' LM subscription to add to any older units [pre-Feb 2012] which were originally sold with Sensis OEM 'nuMaps' guarantee only [i.e. non-LM]. 'One-off' sensis maps have not been offered for sale since the switch over. That combined with the sporadic issue of new versions looks like the 'thin edge of the wedge to me'. It may soon be RIP Sensis as far as Garmin is concerned. I hope not because I have several nuvis with Sensis LM as OEM. I somehow doubt they will offer Navteq LM in it's place when their Sensis data contract finishes ....... [??]

[peteramjet]

No doubt some will think I'm flogging a dead horse here, but once again I've compared both the 2015.2 versions of Sensis and HERE (NAVTEQ) maps. I did a check yesterday and this morning of the major roadways around Sydney, plus my usual set of new and old back streets and rural areas in the Central West and South of NSW that I know and have tested before, as well as some speed limit checks.

The latest Sensis map includes new on-ramps on motorways that only opened in June/July this year (big clap), where as the HERE maps are still not displaying an on-ramp that opened late last year (kick in the mouth).

The rural areas I check are showing no difference in data, however the HERE maps still provide better coverage for dirt roads and off road areas.

So, my opinion is still if you use your maps in metro areas Sensis maps are the only way to go, especially if you use main roads and motorways (where I've found the HERE data to be far too outdated). Rural is a 50/50 mix either way between the two and off road use is still taken out by HERE.