Uni kids fight for REAL NBN goes viral

[peteramjet]

People also don't seem to look at the actual monthly cost of NBN services. It's fricken expensive.

Looking at the iiNet NBN prices as an example, I would be paying more than $20 per month more that I pay now for the same downloads as the SAME speed (up to 25mbps).

[knowabit1]

I will also ad, before someone claims it doesnt cost us any money, that government bonds do cost money. I have seen many people claim the NBN doesnt cost us any money because its paid for with bonds.

Here is a one line wikipedia explanation of what a government bond is :

Last time I read up on government bond I understand them to be a government IOU with the taxpayers being the guarantors as the theory is a government can not go broke.

If the figures are wrong & the returns are not what was planned the taxpayer will being making up the shortfall

[knowabit1]

I still can not see why they would take fibre to every apartment in buildings.

I seem to work on all these 1 bedroom apartments & I can not believe they need fibre all the way to the unit at the governments cost whereas it should just go to the mdf if you were to build it.

In Perth here people are paying $7,000 to $8,000 a house to connect to the underground power network where they are removing power lines & poles. You want power you pay, do not pay no power

[SpankedHam]

I still can not see why they would take fibre to every apartment in buildings.

Using copper for the last 100 metres or so for high density residences was considered by NBN Co during planning. Whilst it could deliver the single channel speeds it could not deliver the full NBN service (ie 4 independant eth ports and POTS) and was dropped for that reason.

Unfortunately Mal saw that VDSL2 would work in such circumstances and used that as a prop to support FTTN. The reality of it is the internal cabling found in such premises is in far better condition - less joints, not exposed to 40 years of weather, higher quality joints and most importantly a considerably heavier guage of wire - than that found in the CAN in general. 25Mbit/sec over 1km of 0.41mm wire with multiple joints that have been damaged by corrosive agents and a few decades of weather with damaged cable sheaths permitting water entry? Not likey. The UK's offcom says more like 400m. NZ didn't have a lot of joy with long loops either.

[Skepticist]

There must be a lot of people like myself who simply can't get ADSL due to excessive line loss because of distance from the nearest exchange which will be the node - means FTTN will not be any improvement at all. Sadly, 56k dialup is the most reliable service I can get and it seems that will never get any better as, despite regular enquiries as to the possible physical upgrade over more than a decade, there is no intention at all of ever fixing the problem here at least. To make matters even worse, wireless broadband here is very unreliable as this is a black spot for that service as well.

My only chance for getting a reasonable speed service is the NBN and construction has commenced in this area so I can only hope that it's one of those existing contracts that will get completed. When I say reasonable speed I'd be ecstatic with anything that didn't drop out every few minutes and allowed watching a simple video without pauses every few seconds. Must be hordes of people in the same situation who just watch those with fast services get even faster services and still whine about not having the very best.

How about some equality even if that means the super high speed for the privileged ones gets reduced somewhat?

[SpankedHam]

People also don't seem to look at the actual monthly cost of NBN services. It's fricken expensive.

Looking at the iiNet NBN prices as an example, I would be paying more than $20 per month more that I pay now for the same downloads as the SAME speed (up to 25mbps).

Which ISP do you use at present? Are you achieving 24Mbit/sec with your current ADSL service? Do you have a fixed telephone service? If so, do you require it or would you drop it if you had the choice? Are you in an area covered by iinet's own ADSL network or the Optus ADSL network or are you in an area only serviced by Telstra? Even if you have coverage by 3rd party hardware is it able to be provided on your line or is there a blocker (such as a RIM etc)?

Answer those and you may be able to support your 'fricken expensive' stance, but until then, it that a blast of hot air I feel?

[knowabit1]

Using copper for the last 100 metres or so for high density residences was considered by NBN Co during planning. Whilst it could deliver the single channel speeds it could not deliver the full NBN service (ie 4 independant eth ports and POTS) and was dropped for that reason.

Unfortunately Mal saw that VDSL2 would work in such circumstances and used that as a prop to support FTTN. The reality of it is the internal cabling found in such premises is in far better condition - less joints, not exposed to 40 years of weather, higher quality joints and most importantly a considerably heavier guage of wire - than that found in the CAN in general. 25Mbit/sec over 1km of 0.41mm wire with multiple joints that have been damaged by corrosive agents and a few decades of weather with damaged cable sheaths permitting water entry? Not likey. The UK's offcom says more like 400m. NZ didn't have a lot of joy with long loops either.

If you are in a 1 bedroom apartment taking a fibre all the way to the apartment is an waste of money I reckon.

If the internal cabling in my place is stuffed I pay to fix it

[Uncle Fester]

People also don't seem to look at the actual monthly cost of NBN services. It's fricken expensive.

Looking at the iiNet NBN prices as an example, I would be paying more than $20 per month more that I pay now for the same downloads as the SAME speed (up to 25mbps).

NBN would save me $30 a month as you really don't need line rental any more.
iiNET is pricey, others have better deals. I read Skymesh are good, but some warned of Exetel not delivering the speed.

I have Telstra copper for $90 a month and I am a looser with less than 2Mb/s in the evening. My wife watches TFC and I want to watch HULU... only blocky, low-def still images are just not my cup of tea. I might as well paint my TV pictures.
In the daytime I get over 7Mb/s but unfortunately I have to find the money at that time to pay the bills.

It looks like I will just miss out on FTTH. Being in a rural residential area, the node will probably be 3km away and cost to home will be in the tens of thousands.
I am happy to receive donations from those who claim that it can be done for $1k or less. I know a wee tiny bit about electrical engineering and I know that it can't be done at that cost.

On the other side the expected high cost blow outs claimed by the media and Liberal party are actually caused by teething problems, that every new project or system has. It is false to extrapolate the final cost based on this early experience.
Unlike other new constructions this is a fairly repetitive process. With time, concepts and procedures will be improved to simplify the process based on experience and mistakes done in the earlier stages. This will eventually reduce cost and speed things up.
It is a matter of the contractors and project managers and has absolutely nothing to do with any political party. It is very clear to me that both those responsible in Liberal and Labor would not even know where the business end of a screwdriver is.

As for the investment side, unlike an investment property where the full cost must be met at the time of purchase, this is a pay as you go investment.
So we are not paying every year interest on $50billion but only have to release bonds on the amount we are spending at the moment.
While this will accumulate over time, so will the return which lowers the actual amount spent and at some point it will turn around and generate income.
Fibre (unlike copper) is very low maintenance and has a life expectancy of over 60 years. It is an investment for the future and should not be seen as a burden on the taxpayer but it will be for our children if we still don't have it.

I can only hope the liberal party will come to their senses soon enough, because if they only invest in FTTN, they will just waste money and generate no significant returns.
Just like Admin, many seem happy with their ADSL and see no point paying for a fibre connection. This will just drive up the cost for NBN and become a constant tax burden if it needs to be subsidised because only few will use it.
However if everybody would want to watch an Australian version of Netflix in prime time, our copper network would collapse.
So we will stay behind... as usual.
Enjoy your Freeview !

[SpankedHam]

If you are in a 1 bedroom apartment taking a fibre all the way to the apartment is an waste of money I reckon.

If the internal cabling in my place is stuffed I pay to fix it

You can reckon to your contentment, that is your prerogative. Fortunately, for anyone that is covered by NBN fibre and lives in high density residences, your reckoning does not set the agenda.

[knowabit1]

You can reckon to your contentment, that is your prerogative. Fortunately, for anyone that is covered by NBN fibre and lives in high density residences, your reckoning does not set the agenda.

Too true, I also reckon people want everything for free.

In Perth here I know of 1 house where they have connected nbn into house that will be knocked down within 2 years for units as they are waiting on putting the mother into nursing home. Money wasted connecting nbn cable to home in this instance & nbn would not have had 1,000 customers in Perth at the time.

If it is free money will be wasted

[SpankedHam]

Too true, I also reckon people want everything for free.

In Perth here I know of 1 house where they have connected nbn into house that will be knocked down within 2 years for units as they are waiting on putting the mother into nursing home. Money wasted connecting nbn cable to home in this instance & nbn would not have had 1,000 customers in Perth at the time.

If it is free money will be wasted

Oh noes! Two years! The pain! The Pain! If that's the best you can come up with how on earth can you support a '20.4 billion dollar' plan that in essence is designed from the go to be completely obselete within 10 years with no effective upgrade path (ie, to upgrade you rip it all out and start again)?

Is it really money wasted when the NBN fibre itself will still be available to service the units when they are built?

Hmm?

[Dave001]

The main ingredient of the upgrade is fibre and as long as its FTTN it can be upgraded at any time to the house. Quoted figures of $5000 to connect your house are extremely at the TOP end and were put out by Labor to try and scare people in to voting for them based purely on the NBN. Like everything else, it failed.

Current realistic prices are sub $3000.

From what I understand, and I could have interpreted it incorrectly, paying the extra money to have fiber installed from the node, will not actually give you a FTTH connection, you will still be limited by the bandwidth available to the node.

As in, the node has 100 homes connected to it, they calculate the max each connection requires is 50Mbps, so it needs to have a fiber connection from exchange to node that will supply 5Gbps, lets add 20% to allow for the extra bandwidth required for the people that will pay the $3000 to get a 100Mbit fiber connection, so we need 6Gpps, so they run enough fiber optic lines from the exchange to the node to meet capacity.

In 5 years time if I want to sign up for a 1Gbps connection, which will be offered by several ISP's by then, even though I paid $3000, I still will not be able to get a proper 1Gbps fiber connection to my home, as the bandwidth will not be available between the node and exchange.

So you can't really say "as long as its FTTN it can be upgraded at any time to the house", as that is not going to be the case.

[SpankedHam]

From what I understand, and I could have interpreted it incorrectly, paying the extra money to have fiber installed from the node, will not actually give you a FTTH connection, you will still be limited by the bandwidth available to the node.

That's right. The service that will be supplied in a fibre-from-the-FTTN is nothing like a FTTP NBN connection. It will not only not be capable of the full service a FTTP NBN connection provides it will be subject to congestion at the FTTN cabinet too. Not only that, if the Libs continue to ape the UK experience not only will you get to pay potentially thousands to get fibre, you'll not own the fibre afterwards (you effectively gift it to NBN Co) and you'll get to pay an annual 'fibre access fee' on top of your ISP fees to boot.

[Uncle Fester]

Using copper for the last 100 metres or so for high density residences was considered by NBN Co during planning. Whilst it could deliver the single channel speeds it could not deliver the full NBN service (ie 4 independant eth ports and POTS) and was dropped for that reason.

Apparently not. I found out in the suburban regions near my area that they have installed distribution boxes in the pits every few hundred metres so the "last 100m" is the existing copper. I think this is called FTTC and saves heaps, at least cost only a little more than the useless FTTN.
Because these are for single family homes and I assume everyone already has their own copper wire link, it should work OK, definitely for 25MB/s which would be a blessing against my above mentioned 2MB/s.
So if it means for me that I could still get FTTC, I would be happy.

The large suburban areas that need to be covered is the reason for the cost blowout, not high density metro areas where Fibre To The Multistory Buildings is rather economical, FTTMB. I made that one up

[knowabit1]

Oh noes! Two years! The pain! The Pain! If that's the best you can come up with how on earth can you support a '20.4 billion dollar' plan that in essence is designed from the go to be completely obselete within 10 years with no effective upgrade path (ie, to upgrade you rip it all out and start again)?

Is it really money wasted when the NBN fibre itself will still be available to service the units when they are built?

Hmm?

I do not support a '20.4 billion dollar' plan.

I reckon it is money wasted if they do an installation running fibre from the street to the home when it will be knocked as it is free installation everybody will want it & there will be more waste.

I believe turnbull plan will cost at least double & I believe the labor plan will cost at least 3 times what they are saying & will still be rolling out in the 2030s

Oh noes, i do believe the figures they are spruiking are the biggest load of bs going around but lucky for oz money grows on trees so it will not hurt any taxpayer.

In Perth here we have an underground power being installed & power poles with lines being removed. Last I heard home / unit owners were each contributing around $7,000 for the upgrade which included cabling from the street to the home. If you did not want a cable from street to home for whatever reason there was a lesser charge. Supported by both sides of politics over here.

[lsemmens]

When they finally do go FTTH what concerns me is how will your telephone service cope in a power outage? We may need a UPS just to maintain communication.

[Dave001]

When they finally do go FTTH what concerns me is how will your telephone service cope in a power outage? We may need a UPS just to maintain communication.

There are these new things called batteries, amazing little devices, they actually store power.

[porkop]

What is the speed (Mbps) difference between FTTH and FTTN.

I also agree with the comment that FTTN could be upgraded anytime with FTTH, just get it done some way or another I say. If it improves my ADSL2+ speed of 12Mbps. I will be a happy vegemite!

[porkop]

When they finally do go FTTH what concerns me is how will your telephone service cope in a power outage? We may need a UPS just to maintain communication.

Who cares, it will mean no telemarketers, bring on the blackouts!!!

[allover]

Back on topic
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