Reply With QuoteWhat do you mean by "cloud"? We certainly monitor plenty of IP cameras.
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What do you mean by "cloud"? We certainly monitor plenty of IP cameras.
we have a client that wants to send all their cameras to a cloud, some of their sites have dvr no, ip cameras are onsite.
There is no doubt that 'video as a service' is the future and there are tremendous advantages to recording off-site. Especially after your building gets destroyed, or when an on-site DVR might fail whereas a managed service provider would ensure it didn't.
However, Australian Internet just isn't that reliable unless you pay WAY more than anyone would want to. It's emerging in the US, but I'd say it's a while off in Australia.
I wouldnt think it would be that far off personally, it would probably be more a point of our poor upload speeds ? Which I believe will improve under the NBN.
As it is, every photo I take on my smart phone and every phone call I make or receive, is instantly uploaded to a cloud service. Backing up things has always been a pain for people and almost everyone has lost data or digital photos at some stage. Cloud services like Google Drive and Dropbox's popularity has gone through the roof in the last year.
Would I be right in presuming that with CCTV that it would be recorded locally first then uploaded and not uploaded "live" ? Or is "cloud monitoring" (as mentioned in the original post) different to this ?
Your photos, phone etc. is all very low priority traffic and there are no 'quality of service' issues. When you're uploading CCTV footage, it is potentially high-bandwidth and can even be real-time. Imagine uploading video imagery in a busy area which would amount to constant video streaming. TV streaming sites use lots of ISP-side technology and multicasting to accelerate viewing of content by lots of people, which a one-off CCTV site would not benefit from. Then there's latency, network dropouts etc.
Then there's the question of availability. Would you be happy if your CCTV was only being recorded 95% of the time? How about 70%? What about between 3 and 5am when your ISP may take things offline for upgrades.
Now, if you had a local recording AND an upload that's a different story. It's actually a good idea and I have in fact specified it for a few sites which, without going into detail, could have been destroyed (blown up, burnt down) and an on-site only recording would have been destroyed leaving no evidence.
However they are paying THOUSANDS for their Internet connections which are high-speed, very reliable and very resilient. It's a whole different story when a petrol station might want to store all their cameras off-site with our without local recording and only pay $49.95 for their Internet connection...
As I said, this WILL change with advances in Australian networks (although may well never be available in all suburbs) but for the time being it's wishful thinking in most cases. Have a look at which lists companies that provide exactly this service. Now look at where they're located and consider how easy it is to set up a mobile network or Internet connection there given landmass and population (customer) density per square mile, compared to Australia. The typical Japanese hotel room has more bandwidth available to guests than BRW Top 50 companies have coming into their server rooms.
Under the Coalitions "Improved" NBN structure, What they are guranteeing speed wise is only marginally better then our current ADSL2+ Speeds. Coalitions 25/5 speed will not be able to stream HD Cameras 24/7 to a "Cloud Service" or to an offsite source as the 5Mbit upload speed is not fast enough to cope. The Future of CCTV is heading in the HD Direction and sadly the Coalition NBN will be the bottleneck.Originally Posted by admin
Sorry Adro, I'm loath to discuss religion, politics or sports here but your party membership is clouding (heh) your judgement.
In what universe will any small premises' camera network be uploading a constant 5Mbit stream? Ever heard of event-driven transmission? Do you really think people would be off-siting 5MP HD imagery? All that for $49 a month perhaps?
See: where Axis have nominated some real-world bandwidth expectations.
It wasn't a question of it being "improved" it was a question of what was achievable and wouldn't be overblown and overpriced. I wouldn't at all be surprised if by the time the NBN is completed, comparable speeds will be achieved via the mobile networks making much of the NBN a waste of time to begin with.
You're obviously a Labor man, but if they couldn't even manage to insulate a few roofs without killing people, what on Earth makes you think they could pull of the most ambitious telecomms project the world had ever seen?
Adro,
What he said. I would only be typing basically the same thing. Spot on with what mobile networks will be , I can remember 6-7 years ago connecting to the internet with GPRS, then 2G, then 3G, now 4G. In the same time with fixed line I have had ADSL1 and then ADSL2 (only due to the installation of a Telstra Tophat on the rim cabinet)
We have plenty of pro labor NBN threads already for tales of woe
Do you want some kind of permanent storage or event recording? If there is an alarm system on site then I can quickly set you up with a test account to record images on alarm activation. If you want permanent storage then you need to look at the US market.
Uh, how is he going to get the data there? Shitty Australian Internet connection now with extra latency...
We still don't know what type of storage he wants. He may be happy with a simple snapshot every minute, he may want 1 frame per second on motion detection, he may want more. Whatever he wants, I'm pretty sure he won't find it in Australia.
No one mentioned "Small" sites. Event driven transmission is good for your average site, but I'm guessing you dont do any major high risk sites, sites where everything is recorded 24/7 onsite and offsite. We have some of these and yes they would take the HD option for any extra cost no questions asked - but sadly this will never be an option in Australia.
I acknowledge that however made that comment simply because they are the ones who would hang directly off an NBN connection, whereas a larger enterprise customer can deploy their own connectivity right now rather than waiting for the NBN. Right now we have a fibre backhaul coming into our monitoring centre which would make most people weep and frankly when the NBN ever gets to our street it's not going to add a whole lot.
I have no desire to get into a pissing contest, but I made my living dealing with some of the highest-risk security consumers in the country and was dealing with anti-terrorism in the nineteen eighties when most law-enforcement had never heard the word uttered. When 9/11 happened and the rest of the world woke up, for several of my then-clients it was business as usual. So yes, I'm well aware of resiliency of forensic CCTV and this includes 'black box' type recording on-site which can withstand explosion, impact and fire, in addition to off-site transmission for both monitoring and redundancy.Event driven transmission is good for your average site, but I'm guessing you dont do any major high risk sites, sites where everything is recorded 24/7 onsite and offsite.
Well I'm yet to meet a single security consumer who will do anything at any cost, so I envy you and suggest you pull some dark-fibre or mount some fixed-wireless right now and get back to us . Bandwidth problem solved. Sure about never?We have some of these and yes they would take the HD option for any extra cost no questions asked - but sadly this will never be an option in Australia.
Last edited by downunderdan; 15-10-13 at 06:17 PM.
I don't doubt you've dealt with and seen more then I most likely ever will in the security industry. I got into this by accident after completing degrees in IT, and am relatively young (Under 30). All I am saying is we have sites who we look after cctv wise who we record for 24/7 offsite and they pay alot for this service. One of the sites is a 48 camera site. They pay for the dedicated connection both ends and have asked on more than one occassion if it is possible to go to a HD system and sadly this will never be a reality.
Actually, they could could do it right now. For a price. Remember, the NBN is just a piece of fibre, either to your home or to a nearby point. If you wanted to pay for your own fibre you could do so right now. Today. So to say it will never be a reality is to ignore what is available today.
The question however - and it's an important one, is whether your clientele are willing to pay for it. Now some enterprises already have this level of bandwidth at their disposal and it's not a lot of extra effort. However if one had to actually haul fibre there would have to be a pretty compelling business case for it.
Last edited by downunderdan; 16-10-13 at 10:45 AM.
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