Thailand Holiday Scams

[ol' boy]

Absolute Destinations / Absolute Holidays / Club Absolute

Thought i'd post this here, just out of interest, as there a few members from SE Asia and perhaps some others may have heard of it.
A good friend signed up to "Club Absolute" last year.... Its Time Share, but as Time Share got squashed in Thailand, they have re-badged it as a "Club" with member benefits.

Personally, i cant believe he did it, but then again, he also bought a $8000 Betting Software package from Darwin too years ago.

There are hundreds of pages on the net when you Google search this, and 99.9% posting it is a scam.
From my reading, it seems its not so much a scam, as a Con.
As they do deliver a product, its just not a very good one, its expensive, it will not be as it was explained, you will not get your dates, it will not have a view, it will be noisy, the pool will be a puddle, etc.

The Pitch........

You're new in Thailand (or Bali or a few other destinations)
Spotters find you in the streets, they are often on scooters
They stop and speak with you, show you a pretty flyer of Holiday Resorts, then give you a Free Stratchie card (every card wins a T-Shirt)
Of course, to claim the T-shirt, you have to go back to the office with them (thats when the spotters get paid)

Then the Office staff go to work, to claim the T-Shirt, you need to come to a presentation for 90min, which goes for 4 hours.
You go via Taxi to a Resort that they claim to own, but do not and they show you a room, then you get the presentation.

After that its back to the office for the Hard Sell.
They give you another sctratchie..... guess what, you won a Free Weeks Holidays at the resort you just visited. (only redeemable after 45 days has passed) They also go on to say the Scatchie game is sponsered by VISA and Master Card.
Then the hard sale really starts, they question you about you holiday habits, income, jobs status, etc etc
They offer their product (Time Share) with all these other crazy additions, discount flights, can use it any number of weeks a year(just pay $179 a week), transferrable to family and friends.... basically anything to get you to sign. They promise they have affiliations with majoy chains in your area etc

Then the cracker, due to Thai Law, you have to sign today, they can not offer you this tomorrow (yes, alarm bells for anyone with a heart beat and 3 brain cells)
If you decline, they turn nasty and blame you for wasting their time or have some hard luck story.....

Now.... believe it or not, my friend signed on, as many do (they must be good).
Scanning the internet, they have more than 5000 people sign on in 2010.

The Damage (it varies, but its more or less around this mark):

$13,000 AUD for a Free week a year
49 Year contract
$400 Euro management fee a year, increases 5% or more a year
Off Season Only, Studio Apartment, subject to availability.

Yep..... they even have a get out clause.


Anyway, i didn't want to burst my friends bubble too much, i already felt bad enough for him.
Recently he just returned from his Free Week and a Bonus week in Thailand, they got picked up at the Airport by Limo (Free), a week at one resort (Free), and week and second resort (Free)... Limo back to the Airport and home.
So.. at this point, he is happy with the process.

I just see someone that spent $13,600 AUD for 2 weeks Thailand, that any of us could have managed for $900 or less.


So that is the run down..... It will remain to be seen if he can book a weekend in Melbourne as he was told
Or 2 weeks in South Africa, as they would like to do.
Apparently you can, but if they dont have a resort there (which they dont) you pay off session rates for a local resort that would be available to anyone booking online.


Does anyone have friends trapped in this Con? Or know any storys?

If you are bored, Google Thailand JetSki Scam Youtube, that is also a pissa.
Same as Bike Hire of High End bikes there (Ducati, Yamaha R1, etc)

[freakee1]

I do remember one of the 2 hour seminars I went to as a young fella, in Queensland, where the scouts worked in the theme parks - pretty much similar to the above scheme, but Accor was the hotel chain.

Alas we didn't do it - must admit looking back, you are correct Oceanboy, with life, children, change of jobs, homes, work places, companies blah blah blah, the idea sounds great at the time but really a waste of money


f

[viewer]

We got scammed into going to the seminar at Gold Coast one year...just trying to get out of the door and away from them was hard....luckily it only cost us our time....will never fall for that again, I hope

[ol' boy]

There are Traveller Warning on New Zealand and Australian Government sites which both mention the "Holiday Club" scam along with a handful of other well known scams in Thailand.

The more you look, the more you find, its outrageous... I had no idea half this stuff went on. And more worrying, i had no idea people are so gullible
Just last month the Thai Governmant set up "Day Courts" in Motels near where these Scams take place to deal with the matters....
Is it just me... or does this just spell more corruption, as now the so called Judges will be on the take too.
The whole place stinks!

This next Video is not a street scam, but something far far more sinister.
Once again, i cant believe people are so stupid/gullible with their money!



Its a long video, but i found it compelling (has a bit about email tracking and ISPs).
Even if he was kidding himself.
Its also the best self produced YouTube video i have ever watched.
Uploaded July 2013

Other Thailand Scam Warnings:





This next Video is the best i have found that sums up the "Holiday Club" con in Thailand

[gordon_s1942]

I did a 'package' back in 1999 for a stay at Surfers Paradise for several days and while I got what was basically proposed, I really had to push and shove to get each item listed.
Reputedly by paying a fee up front, I got the items listed in the package at a reduced rate which I think disappeared with the cost of the phone calls trying to organise each part.
As each item in the package dealt with a separate business, trying to co-ordinate them took quite a few phone calls and one part, a cruise on the Broadwater was very much in doubt but almost at the last minute, one was arranged and I have to say it was worth the time and effort.
To say some of the operators who had 'signed up' in this 'package' were less than interested when I tried to make the bookings, even though it was severaL months away and I tried to avoid school holidays, would be an understatement and made me very annoyed.
That and those later Package offers some Motor dealers had on buying a new Vehicle from them with accommodation for a few dollars a day and then you found out Breakfast was $35 per person per Day and you also had to pay for the evening meal too during the stay which more than equaled the then going price of staying in a hotel/motel.

We have enough 'shonks' in this country without going offshore to be 'done' by that countries lot.

[ol' boy]

I don't know of any Time Share that has ever included breakfast?
I am surprised the amount on here that have mentioned Gold Coast Timeshare deals, i thought everyone learnt their lesson on those in the 80's, when they were almost banned outright.

That is the trick with the Thailand "Holiday Club" deals..... As TimeShare in most places in the world including Thailand has a "Cooling Off" period.
When the sellers have you in the office they try and get a deposit off you, telling you there is a 14 day money back cooling off period, so no risk, pull out with a full refund if you don't like it.... many suckers sign up and pay something just to get the hell out of there.

Then wake up the next day to realise they have been scammed, as its not Timeshare as such, its a contract to a "Holiday Club" and there is NO cooling off period.
Nor by law does there need to be.

Bang... they got ya.

[freakee1]

Keith Jones would have to be the craziest, most driven man on the planet, not only was he scammed $100K, he decided to find them and rock up to their home, in Thailand, alone

after 2 years of festering over it – he could of ended up in a ditch face down somewhere, sheesh I guess he knows how to appreciate the small things in life now

Wow definitely worth watching


f

[ol' boy]

Yeah, that video reminded of Liam Neeson in "Taken"..... Only Liam had a good set of military, fighting and weapons skills.
Keith had a camera and a rather average polo shirt.

[trash]

A friend of mine was sometimes sucked in by investor scams in Australia. I told him that he should make use of my bullshit detector and invite me to some of these presentations.
The first one I went to, he was late. By the time he arrived (20 minutes later) the cops had already turned up to make sure I'd left.

I thought this was extremely funny because I just got up 2 minutes into the presentation and attempted to leave.
The presenter made the mistake of challenging me. "Oh excuse me? Did you have to be somewhere ?"
"Yes, out of here !"
"Why what's wrong buddy, aren't you interested in a fantastic investment opportunity ?"
I let the guy have it, by asking him some simple questions. At first he was slick, but then his argument started to unravel and he lost his cool.
I then tormented him. (You guys think I give Tytower a hard time... I'm nice to Tytower (he hates that)... but I'm not nice to scammers).
People in a group are afraid to leave the herd. So if one person smells a scam, they can seriously disrupt it by walking out.
Which I did. "Are you upset that I'm leaving without you taking my money or are you upset that my leaving might also make these poor suckers realise you're taking their money."

I was waiting outside when the cops turned up. They came out and spoke to me after going in first. They were cool with the situation. I told them that their presence was not to remove me because
I was attempting to leave and they were trying to stop me. The scammers called the police to make themselves look legit knowing the police would do nothing.
I suggested that they go back inside and ask the organisers for a quick statement and get their ABN number for the record. Bloody hilarious because about ten people came out a few minutes later.

---

In Thailand ... well I've seen quite a few scams. I don't get sucked in for the big time scams since like most people here, I could do a good holiday in Thailand for $1000 independently.

But for the small time traveller in Thailand I can point out a few things to watch out for.
The first is "DIREC TOURS". If you see these fvck knuckles in southern Thailand, they operate out of Surat Thanni.
They run a bus cartel and pretty much all the tourist buses pass through their terminal in Surat Thanni and they will delay you and #### you around.
It's hard to avoid them because the travel agents will tell you anything to make a sale. "Yes, direct bus to Bangkok, no stops." But because they know you'll never be back to kick their arse
nobody cares. Nothing is ever going to fix the situation until somebody else decides to smash the cartel. I suspect the Russian mafia will be onto them in a few years, especially if I drop a few more hints in the right ears There's a vacuum there for at least a standover man.

Another transport scam runs to Chang Mai. Discount bus tickets are sold to unsuspecting Ferang. The buses are usually death traps and I'm waiting for a serious accident to shake up the Thai tourism industry.
Though I had seen some newer buses doing the run this year, they were still running the same scam. The bus stops short of town by about 10km.
If you have a hotel booked, then you're charged an extortionate amount for your taxi ride into town. All the taxis at the remote bus stop are part of the cartel, so you have no chance of finding a real taxi unless you walk a kilometre back to the main road.
If you don't have a hotel, well the taxi driver knows the "cheap" or "best" hotel in town and will take you there (where he gets his commission).

The way out of the scam is to say you don't have a hotel, they take you to one and then when you get there, you walk away. The taxi driver will scream and carry on, but never call the police.
If challenged, you tell everybody you already paid the fare as part of the bus ticket. They don't pay off the local police, so the local police would be keen to know so they can get some "commission" from them.


The best solution is just to fly or hire a car and drive yourself. So much better than a shitty bus and shameless scammers.

[JasonC]

good documentary thanks I wish he had got some justice
nevermind

[ol' boy]

Well, he is still alive.
The fact that he made this video in the hope someone will recognise the scammers voice and maybe he will see justice and perhaps some of his money back is pretty laughable.
In fact, i am even starting to question if that was the actual door at the correct address he knocked on.... Any door would have done for the sake of the Video.

Maybe he was hoping HSBC would just give him the money?

He does seem quite genuine, but as we all learn in life, when there is money involved, you have to take all emotion out and just stick to the facts.

If anything, it was a good eye opener to where you stand in a foreign country and what the AFP, Interpol and/or local Embassy can do for you.

Its a great watch either way

[JasonC]

I agree - Thais can be tricky plus the language barrier means he could have been anywhere - it could have been any address
plus Thais can be pretty mean when they are confronted (I assume the American had some Thai helpers) so it was lucky he didn't bump into a group of them

he was pretty dumb signing over $110 000!!!!!!!!!! to someone overseas - you could use an Australian based firm to do similar investing for you
bit silly really

[admin]

I was reading today about another scam where Australians visit a foreign country and stay in a hotel. Scammers ring the hotel and ask to be put through to a random room number. They pretend to be from the front desk and advise that they are having trouble with your credit card and get you to confirm your card details (including the CCV on the back) to them.

[ol' boy]

I know most of us would be straight onto someone asking such information.
But you imagine a 40 something women on her first holiday to Asia, a bit confused, a bit overwhelmed, hot..... they would hand over anything asked of them.

I feel like going to Thailand, just to Scam the Scammers.... But no doubt they'd find you quick smart.

[admin]

I know most of us would be straight onto someone asking such information.
But you imagine a 40 something women on her first holiday to Asia, a bit confused, a bit overwhelmed, hot..... they would hand over anything asked of them.

Exactly and thats why it probably works.

You have checked in and probably used your card at check in......a call wouldnt seem out of the ordinary. Like most scams, if they get one success out of 50 phone calls they are in front. I would suspect that this one produces better odds than that though.....

[ol' boy]

Well, its near on 3 years exactly and my mate finally admitted to me, he got scammed.

Takes some people a while.

[trash]

Actually, I'm glad that this thread has come up again.
I was in Thailand not that long ago and I did notice a new scam.
Again it starts with a couple of westerners (usually British) who pull up to you on a motor scooter in the street. (This sets alarm bells off in my head every time).
Most of the time they use the standard tactic of telling you that they are advertising a club, or an event at a club or something similar.
These guys politely get told, no, not interested and they usually go away. If they persist, they get told to fvck off before they get hurt.

The really dangerous ones pretend to be tourists. They of course pull up on the side of the road just ahead of you and pull out a map.
As you walk up to them, they quickly interrupt you and ask you if you know where something really obvious is.
They'll then ask you, "Oh and do you know where club X is? We hear that there is an event with 100 baht drinks." or something that sounds plausible, and not even overly cheap.
It's very easy to fall for it and they must get a lot of people fall for it.
That caught my attention because when it happened a second time, alarm bells went off in my head and my curiosity got the better of me as I checked out the place from a distance. What I did notice is what appeared to be a random crowd of people, lets call them the victims. A ride past the place on a different night the crowd was different as you would expect, but of course there are familiar faces. Again, this isn't strange. Most westerns go back to familiar places.
But I happened to come back past the same place two weeks later and noticed a very similar situation. A small crowd of people who were all unfamiliar, but again, there were groups of people that I was sure I'd seen somewhere before.

This is where fact ends and speculation begins.
It looks like the familiar people are the ones working the scam. They turn up and make friends with strangers and have a good time.
Where are you staying, obviously comes up in the conversation at some point during the night.
"Oh we have a time share here, we come to Thailand every year for 2 weeks and it cost us only $x000 for a 25 year contract. yadda yadda yadda."
Of course, why would such nice strangers in a bar lie about their holidays?

It's very likely they're handed off to another person in an office. So that the people on the street who got you to the bar and the sellers and the office all appear unrelated.

So they might just be hard selling a shitty timeshare plan or I'd suspect they might be selling a pig in a poke. Make the sales and skip town with the money.
But I can't help but wonder if it might not be harvesting victims, but rather grooming them for a bigger fall.

[VroomVroom]

one bloke i know had his drink spiked in Thailand , woke up on a back street near his hotel and his wallet was stolen along with everything else he had in his hotel room. I know this can happen anywhere but the Thai police were very slack at trying to assist , so he had to go to the embassy for help.

[ol' boy]

And really, what help would you even get?

All those SE Asian places, but mostly the tourist traps have so many gullible Westerns, its like taking candy from a baby for the crooks.
People just need to be street wise, yet so many fall for the "Oh they are lovely people, so poor yet so nice" front.
And sure, many are.... Its just the gullible ones that cant tell the difference.

My own uncle has owned a bar in Thailand for 4 years, he has been mugged multiple times
I'd feel a bit more sorry for him if he wasn't so gullible.

So back to my friend that spent $16,000 AUD on a "Holiday Deal", he has also spent $8000 on a Horse Racing program and was asking me about Sharing Picking Software a few days ago.... Some people just never learn

[watchdog]

And really, what help would you even get?

All those SE Asian places, but mostly the tourist traps have so many gullible Westerns, its like taking candy from a baby for the crooks.
People just need to be street wise, yet so many fall for the "Oh they are lovely people, so poor yet so nice" front.
And sure, many are.... Its just the gullible ones that cant tell the difference.

My own uncle has owned a bar in Thailand for 4 years, he has been mugged multiple times
I'd feel a bit more sorry for him if he wasn't so gullible.

So back to my friend that spent $16,000 AUD on a "Holiday Deal", he has also spent $8000 on a Horse Racing program and was asking me about Sharing Picking Software a few days ago.... Some people just never learn

Sounds like he is on the mailing list for Scams Incororated