UEC 4639 Signal Drop Tuner 1 to Tuner 2 SOLUTION

[transit]

When I first got my 4639 a few months ago I noticed that tuner 1 showed a signal quality of 81% with a signal level of 86% [81/86%]. Tuner 2 showed 56/84%. Both tuners were set to the same C1 frequency. I was a bit disconcerted about the drop between tuner 1 and 2 so I contacted UEC and was told that some degradation was normal and with the figures that I was getting the unit would function correctly. The unit did operate fine so I left it at that.

A few weeks ago I started to get figures like 1 68/82% and 2 37/80%. At other times I was getting 1 75/86% and 2 31/0%. It became usual for tuner 2 to not be able to get a stable lock.

I again contacted UEC [all contact by email] requesting help and they advised that the problem could be fixed by putting a 12 dB attenuator between the first and second tuner and that they would post one to me. Their explanation for why it would work isn't quite comprehensible to me. They said:

This is because of too much signal level tuner 1 and its again amplified and feeding to the second tuner . So the higher half will cut off when it reaches the second tuner.

It doesn't look to me that the signal level on tuner 1 is too high at only 86% but I'm no expert. Perhaps someone here can explain their explanation? I would appreciate it.

Anyway, whilst waiting for this attenuator to arrive I realised that I knew where there was an old unused IPSTAR attenuator. I found it and it was a 14 dB attenuator passing 950 to 1450 MHz. I think that the 4639 uses the 1000 to 2000 MHz frequencies so it's not ideal but I thought that it might help a bit. I fitted it and it made a VAST difference [pun intended]. Before installing it this morning the figures were 1 68/82% and 2 37/0% and after installation the figures are 1 75/86% and 2 81/62% with both tuners being tuned to the same C1 frequency. Figures are similar across the spectrum.

This tuner has never operated as well as it is now operating and perhaps with the correct attenuator fitted it might even be better. I have seen at least one other post mention the signal drop from tuner 1 to 2 so I hope that this post will help others to correct this problem. It would be interesting to know how widespread this problem is.

Here is a pic of my temporary solution:


I'll let you know what happens when I install the correct attenuator in a few days time.

[viewer]

Good work mate. Also good to see UEC offering assistance with the problem. You would think that this be recognised and any update to the guts of the receiver incorporate this fix?

[Tiny]

Well done for pursuing UEC over this.
As viewer said, great that UEC has offered assistance.

I experienced the same & posted in the problems thread, however my solution was easier as I already had a spare leg on my LNB so connected to second tuner, no loop thru, perfect reception levels on both tuners.

Should help those that don't have a dual output LNB, although getting the right attenuator may be confusing for some as there is hundreds of different types.

[transit]

Well done for pursuing UEC over this.
As viewer said, great that UEC has offered assistance.

I experienced the same & posted in the problems thread, however my solution was easier as I already had a spare leg on my LNB so connected to second tuner, no loop thru, perfect reception levels on both tuners.

Should help those that don't have a dual output LNB, although getting the right attenuator may be confusing for some as there is hundreds of different types.

I'll post the type and specs when I receive it.

[anders.jeep]

I too have recently experienced a lower quality number on the second tuner (around 35%) but so far it seems to stay locked on.
After reading this thread I re-tuned the dish against tuner 2. The quality went from 37 to 50 and for tuner 1 from 86 to 63.

I never saw this problem up in western Queensland or around Darwin but then the signal was probably lower in those areas.

I guess this is another way to verifying that the output from tuner 1 is too high.


Anders

[transit]

I too have recently experienced a lower quality number on the second tuner (around 35%) but so far it seems to stay locked on.
After reading this thread I re-tuned the dish against tuner 2. The quality went from 37 to 50 and for tuner 1 from 86 to 63.

I never saw this problem up in western Queensland or around Darwin but then the signal was probably lower in those areas.

I guess this is another way to verifying that the output from tuner 1 is too high.


Anders

Surely the signal in Darwin would be stronger than the signal in Tasmania [which is where I am -- don't know where you are] because of Darwin [and Western Queensland] being closer to the satellite?

What do you mean when you say "I re-tuned the dish against tuner 2". If you let us know what you did this might be a simple solution for some people, although not as simple as an attenuator. But maybe it would apply sometimes when the attenuator would not -- who knows?

[anders.jeep]

According to the footprint data from Satbeams () EIRP for:
Darwin 46dbW for D3 and 44dbW for C1. Recommended dish 80cm for D3 and 90 for C1
Gawler (Adelaide area) 52dbW for D3 and 48dbW for C1. Recommended dish 50cm for D3 and 70 for C1

What I meant by retuning the dish was just that I adjusted the azimuth of the dish to get maximum signal quality bar for tuner 2.

I forgot that I had a Minimax dish in Darwin (Height=81, width 72. The dish in Gawler is height 76 width 82. Ihave no idea what the difference is in gain for those dishes.

Anders

[oldace]

While travelling last month I rang UEC about problems I was having with blank or part recordings. Bugs #5 and/or #15 in the other thread. The lady I spoke to said that an upgrade was due out around the end of October that would hopefully fix some of the EPG problems.

A few days ago I rang again about the upgrade but the chap I spoke to knew nothing of an upgrade. I explained the problem but he was not aware of anybody else having that problem.?? He said that if a single program is set to timer recording it will always record from Tuner 2 and if that tuner has a weak signal the timer recording may well not work properly. Sounds logical. I had noticed that tuner 2 always had a lower signal strength than tuner 2 and depending on our location it could be less than 50%.

His suggestion was to put the single cable onto LNB IN 2 and loop through back to LNB 1.
I tried this and now Tuner 2 is higher than Tuner 1 but the difference only appears to be about 10% compared to near 25% when connected the usual way around. No idea why.

He also suggested the only accurate way to check the levels on both tuners was to ensure that they were both on the same transponder. Makes sense. The best way to ensure this was to set simultaneous recordings going on the same transponder e.g ABC and SBS. This is the method I used to get the 10% difference. I didn’t write any numbers down at the time and the box is all packed away at the moment.

I await the results achieved by “Transit” with the UEC supplied attenuator to see what difference it makes.

[Tiny]

Maybe, as it's plausible that only the tuner 1 output is amplified, so using the opposite config as you have done cures the problem.

[transit]

While travelling last month I rang UEC about problems I was having with blank or part recordings. Bugs #5 and/or #15 in the other thread. The lady I spoke to said that an upgrade was due out around the end of October that would hopefully fix some of the EPG problems.

A few days ago I rang again about the upgrade but the chap I spoke to knew nothing of an upgrade. I explained the problem but he was not aware of anybody else having that problem.?? He said that if a single program is set to timer recording it will always record from Tuner 2 and if that tuner has a weak signal the timer recording may well not work properly. Sounds logical. I had noticed that tuner 2 always had a lower signal strength than tuner 2 and depending on our location it could be less than 50%.

His suggestion was to put the single cable onto LNB IN 2 and loop through back to LNB 1.
I tried this and now Tuner 2 is higher than Tuner 1 but the difference only appears to be about 10% compared to near 25% when connected the usual way around. No idea why.

He also suggested the only accurate way to check the levels on both tuners was to ensure that they were both on the same transponder. Makes sense. The best way to ensure this was to set simultaneous recordings going on the same transponder e.g ABC and SBS. This is the method I used to get the 10% difference. I didn’t write any numbers down at the time and the box is all packed away at the moment.

I await the results achieved by “Transit” with the UEC supplied attenuator to see what difference it makes.

The UEC supplied attenuator hasn't arrived yet so it will be another week until I get into the post office. However, using the IPSTAR tx attenuator with the incorrect specs, with both tuners being set to the same frequency I am consistently [that is, always] getting figures along the following lines:

Tuner 1 75/84 and tuner 2 81/60. You can see that the second tuner's signal level is lower than the first's [because of the attenuator] but the signal quality is actually now higher on the second -- so the attenuation does improve the signal quality greatly. This is on C1. At other times the figures for signal quality is the same on both tuners with signal strength being lower on the second.

If I set both tuners to D3 right now I get tuner 1 100/100 with tuner 2 100/100. I have seen it sometimes 1 100/100 and 2 100/95.

Without the attenuator I was getting second tuner signal quality figures of about one half of the first tuner, with the second tuner not being able to achieve lock. So, now this unit is operating better than it ever has since purchase.

[transit]

Maybe, as it's plausible that only the tuner 1 output is amplified, so using the opposite config as you have done cures the problem.

This makes a lot of sense -- good explanation Tiny. Before I put the new attenuator on I'll try this loop from 2 to 1 to see what sort of figures I get. It certainly would be the simplest fix.

The only thing that I don't understand about this method is how is the lnb powered from the second lnb input? Is it necessary to set the unit to LNB Type = Dual to provide power to the second lnb input?

[oldace]

Re power from LNB 2. I simply changed the cable to LNB 2 and put the loop through the other way around. Nothing else..

[Tiny]

This makes a lot of sense -- good explanation Tiny. Before I put the new attenuator on I'll try this loop from 2 to 1 to see what sort of figures I get. It certainly would be the simplest fix.

The only thing that I don't understand about this method is how is the lnb powered from the second lnb input? Is it necessary to set the unit to LNB Type = Dual to provide power to the second lnb input?

No need to change LNB settings, both tuners power the input cable with 13v for vertical polarization of LNB.

I run a dual output, dual polarity LNBf (actually 2 on 2 separate dishes) & when I had both legs of the LNB connected directly to the decoder, 1 to Tuner 1 & the other to Tuner 2. Signal figures were the same on both tuners. 95/82 for C1 & 100/100 D3. I have since moved that dish & connected it to my 4121 on the other end of the house & connected the 4639 to another bigger 1.2m dish that runs my Foxtel box, via a Spaun 2 in 8 out Multiswitch, that has lowered the signal level to 85 & signal quality to 78 on C1, 95/85 on D3, both tuners read the same. So still good.
I did as everyone else; experience the signal drop on Tuner 2 when I first hooked up the box & had only one leg of the LNBf connected to the 4639 with loop thru to tuner 2.

Hope that clears it up.

[anders.jeep]

Since I had my ways past a Jaycar shop I thought why not try the attenuator thing. Jaycar have a 12dB attenuator as an in-line Ftype connector ($9.95).
I now get on C1 for tuner 1 between 93/100 to 75/100 and 100/100 to 87/100 for tuner 2 (signal quality/signal level). The variation for each tuner is depending on which transponder that is used. The higher numbers are for 11803 MHz and the lower for 12647MHz.
I have not tried the tuner 2 looped to tuner 1.

Anders

[transit]

Since I had my ways past a Jaycar shop I thought why not try the attenuator thing. Jaycar have a 12dB attenuator as an in-line Ftype connector ($9.95).
I now get on C1 for tuner 1 between 93/100 to 75/100 and 100/100 to 87/100 for tuner 2 (signal quality/signal level). The variation for each tuner is depending on which transponder that is used. The higher numbers are for 11803 MHz and the lower for 12647MHz.
I have not tried the tuner 2 looped to tuner 1.

Anders

Excellent results.
Did you simply fit the attenuator on the end of the very short loop-through lead supplied with the unit and then connect that to the tuner 1 output or did you have to use an extra bit of lead?

[anders.jeep]

I used what I had around, a male to male in series with a female to female in total 5cm. The attenuator is 3.5cm. I don't think it is possible to use the short loop through lead without an extender.

Anders

[Tiny]

Hi Anders, for others that read this thread it would be great if you could post the model &/or part number of the Attenuator you got from Jaycar.
Good on you for giving it a shot & succeeding.

If I get a chance in the next couple of days I'll give the oldace solution a go as well to see the results, I know I don't need to, however just out of curiosity I like to play.

[anders.jeep]

The attenuator is Jaycar Catalogue number LT3056. Jaycar lists the bandwidth as 5MHz to 1 GHz but it seems to work fine.

(I tried to include a photo but it didn't work)



I will try the loop back tuner 2 to tuner 1.

I have the output of tuner 2 connected to a DSD4121 and that shows quality between 100/100 and 87/85.

Anders

[viewer]

Whether it be a Humax or a UEC that is having these woes, its poor to see that these measures have to be undertaken to get quality signal to each tuner.
You buy it new, expecting not to have to put addons to make it function as it should do.

It appears to be like all things these days....they never last.

[Tiny]

Whether it be a Humax or a UEC that is having these woes, its poor to see that these measures have to be undertaken to get quality signal to each tuner.
You buy it new, expecting not to have to put addons to make it function as it should do.

It appears to be like all things these days....they never last.

Not necessarily so, according to oldace post#8 as quoted below, the problem is simply rectified by reversing the cable connections to input LNBf to tuner 2 & loop thru to tuner 1,

As soon as I get a chance I'll test this, unfortunately my setup is in a cabinet so rerouting cables is a hassle, however I do intend to find out if this works.

While travelling last month I rang UEC about problems I was having with blank or part recordings. Bugs #5 and/or #15 in the other thread. The lady I spoke to said that an upgrade was due out around the end of October that would hopefully fix some of the EPG problems.

A few days ago I rang again about the upgrade but the chap I spoke to knew nothing of an upgrade. I explained the problem but he was not aware of anybody else having that problem.?? He said that if a single program is set to timer recording it will always record from Tuner 2 and if that tuner has a weak signal the timer recording may well not work properly. Sounds logical. I had noticed that tuner 2 always had a lower signal strength than tuner 2 and depending on our location it could be less than 50%.

His suggestion was to put the single cable onto LNB IN 2 and loop through back to LNB 1.
I tried this and now Tuner 2 is higher than Tuner 1 but the difference only appears to be about 10% compared to near 25% when connected the usual way around. No idea why.

He also suggested the only accurate way to check the levels on both tuners was to ensure that they were both on the same transponder. Makes sense. The best way to ensure this was to set simultaneous recordings going on the same transponder e.g ABC and SBS. This is the method I used to get the 10% difference. Snip...