Strong 4922A receiver connected to IPSTAR 1.2 Mtr BB Dish - Whats out there?

[geosatman]

This is what mine looked like before dixons.

[depoquery]

Hi, I have removed the IPSTAR satellite LNBF from 1.2 Mtr Broadband dish and replaced with Sharp KU 10.7 GHz LNBF.

For those interested I cut a piece of tin, width as the clamped neck area of LNBF.
Folded around the LNBF to get an idea how long, mark/drill holes in tin and reuse the bolts from original clamp.
I spent a little time to be accurate and the new clamp pulls the LNBF down firm with no movement.

Connected a new Strong 4922A Receiver, aimed the dish at Optus D1 and blind scanned to find there is no longer anything in English worth watching.

I had a similar system with smaller dish before the switch over in western NSW. The channels I was watching went of the air and this is the first time since that I have bothered to try again.


Hoping you folks can get me up to speed on the options with this equipment, any ideas were should I aim.
I have a compass and can work of the know point of D1.
Will the dish size change any options?

I like any global news broadcast in English, not sport.

The plan was to pay the one off cost for Optus Aurora.

Please note that Optus Aurora services are scheduled to be shut down in December 2013 when VAST services will take over.

Thanks for any suggestions

Cheers



Letting of Steam

The Government screwed remote Australia, lied and withheld info for commercial interests.
They were evasive and misleading by not plainly stating if you only want ABC the transmission would be terrestrial only requiring Satellite for Commercial reception.
I still have friends who have no TV now, and cannot or will not apply for Government scheme.
After repeated attempts to get information from Government to remote people

For those Searching and trying to understand at a later date, the setup described above was initially pointing towards Intelsat 19 at 166.0°E.
My previous smaller dish did not pickup Intelsat 19 at 166.0°E, possibly the signal was to weak with smaller dish.

D1 is 160E so just turn the dish to the left and you will receive:

ABC 1,2,3 and News24
SBS 1,2,3 and HD version.
NITV

Works well


Additional: I used the Dick Smith needle type Satfinder to align Dish and LNB rotation for maximum signal, went around each settable parameter twice.

The dish is very sensitive to movement and needs to be accurately aligned.
Ensure your clamp fits and works well if you intend making it make sure you are up to required skill.

My best skew for D1 is the 9 O'clock position, cable direction from Sharp 10700 LNBF.
Geosatman has offered "20 to 12" which also gave good signal.
So around these points, should be good to start.

Thankyou for the help and input

[geosatman]

great!! good to see you've got a result.

[dixons]

This is what mine looked like before dixons.

Thanks for the picture,mine looks the same. Had a look at the norsat, I see what you mean about price.
The invacom has a round flange, will this fit the rectangular opening?

[geosatman]

No, but I if you look at the first join behind the molded conical scaler ring it looks like C120 flange so I think you could remove the rest and connect the invacom there.

[geosatman]

This is a pic of what it looks like now.

[dixons]

Thanks for the pic. I think I now see what you mean with the invacom and how it fits to the feedhorn.If I just want horizontal or vertical I can fix the present LNB to either of the rectangular openings.As mine is only a 90cm dish I'm not sure it will be any better than what I already have but it might be useful to have a dedicated dish for some ABC uplinks I like on D2 which are horizontal.

[geosatman]

Yep give it a go after all you haven't spent any money yet. My dish is the bigger 1.2m model but that 90cm should work well on D2 Horizontals. Just blank off the unused one.
BTW I got my Norsat new for $75 on ebay, if you wait and keep looking you could probably find a DRO type for less than half that.

[depoquery]

Could you explain Horizontal and vertical in a layman's application form, what you strike on our satellites minus any non consequential angles for our use?
Got a lot on my plate and internet problems to read up to speed right now, basically believe some satellites transmit one, the other, both or more angles.

So if we were to use the existing KU band LNB on the IPSTAR LNB Transmit/receive manifold. minus the filter section.
Say we get access to another IPSTAR LNB to replace Broadband transmitter!

Now we have LNB manifold set to receive KU Band Horizontal and vertical signal?
Or if we use C-band LNB's we would have a LNB manifold set to receive C-band Horizontal and vertical signal?

Also is there a simple and or complex online reference to angles satellites transmit and related channels?

Because these dishes have a high F/D ratio they are extremely directional. Don't forget Optus satellites have quite a different skew to Intelsat19 you may need to adjust before sweeping. Try going to the 20mins to 12 position.

This is very true.
When the installer arrived the dish was in a flat pack so had to be assembled!
The internet quality was bad and caused many problems regarding government actions and services, even now.



Additional Information on Dish alignment


When I got sick of the unused Dish as an eye sore.

I dug a shovel depth around the concreted pole and pushed the dish over.
Hit with a hammer the shallow layer of concrete broke from pole and I re-concreted properly in a new place.
When first trying to align the dish, signal would keep changing with the breeze and I could not get good reception.

As it turned out almost all the bolts were hand tight from installation, the elevation adjustment bolt has two lock nuts which should be tight against each other and around the mounting plate with only enough freedom to rotate, as with the pivot bolts.
All other structural bolts should be tight for alignment integrity.

After tightening the bolts I received Intelsat 19 at 166.0°E and now receive very good quality for all D1 channels.

My point here is the dish is difficult to align, but worth the trouble when done correct.
If the dish bolts have been done up by hand like mine, you might well find it impossible!

[geosatman]

Note: Optus satellites were not constructed with their polarisation angles aligned accurately north-south which explains the different alignment angle relative to most geostationary satellites. Common LNB's like the ones used by pay TV typically receive both Vertical And Horizontal signals using two probes (antennas) aligned 90 degrees apart within the LNB and switched between by the decoder by changing the voltage bias.
C-Band LNBs have much bigger waveguide apertures consistent with the longer wavelength. (There physical shape and size are much bigger)

[depoquery]

Been here before, but thank you for the link and reply.

I understand the transmitted angles are independently sent and received, extending the number of separated transmissions possible from a given satellite.

Also is there a simple and or complex online reference to angles satellites transmit and related channels?
I take your answer to mean, "Normally you would use a commercial pay TV LNB with multi angle capability" so the information is not available or just not required for our use?

Very happy with the results using a Sharp KU 10.7
The Sharp KU 10.7 sits higher than original LNB manifold, having a larger circumference then the existing part of clamp but makes little difference.

If a C-band LNB comes up for the right price, down the track I will re-install the original manifold as you have. Another day!



Given the overallocation of NBN satellite and decommissioning of equipment in 2015 there is going to be a lot of wasted equipment, so I hope we have given people alternative options to consider.


iiNet stops selling NBN satellite due to 'almost unusable' speeds



iiNet boss Michael Malone calls for NBN usage fee to be cut




Thank you geosatman and MTV.

[tristen]

Been here before, but thank you for the link and reply.

I understand the transmitted angles are independently sent and received, extending the number of separated transmissions possible from a given satellite.

Also is there a simple and or complex online reference to angles satellites transmit and related channels?

International convention dictates that the antennae of geosynchronous satellites employing "linear" polarisation, i.e. horizontal and vertical polarities, are aligned so that the polarisation of transmitted signals is at either 90 degrees (vertical) or 0/180) degrees (horizontal) to the earth's surface, at the satellite's longitudinal (geosynchronous) location.

This means, that for reception in the southern hemispherere, receive antennae, e.g. LNB's, be rotated an appropriate amount anticlockwise for reception locations west of the satellite's longitudinal position, and clockwise for receive locations east of the satellite's longitudinal position (for an observer looking toward the satellite). The opposite is required for reception in the nothern hemisphere. Reception stations located on the earth's surface at the same longitude as that of the satellite of interest require no such compensating "skew".

Optus, for some obscure reason, chose to ignore this well-established convention when aligning the transmit antennae of the satellites operated by them, hence the "non-standard" skew required for reception of radio and television (and data) signals from Optus' satellites.

provides some useful insights which will provide further information.

The Handbook on Satellite Communications, published by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) is also worth reading.

Commonly available "dual polarity" LNB's are generally referred to as "voltage switching" LNB's, due to the employment of 14 volts (DC) for vertical reception and 18 volts (DC) for horizontal reception. (The use of different voltages allows switching of the "probes" located in the feed horn of the LNB - the probes are positioned at right angles to each other).

... "Normally you would use a commercial pay TV LNB with multi angle capability" so the information is not available or just not required for our use?

Voltage switching LNB's are not "multi-angle capable"; they are "dual-angle capable".

There are/have been "multi-angle capable" LNB's or rather "feed horns" (abrev. "feeds"), but they employ(ed) the use of a device called a "polarotor". Such feeds have a single "probe", which is driven by a servo-motor to provide the necessary skew adjustment. They were in common use some years ago but have largely been replaced by the more modern voltage switching type of LNB(F) referred to earlier.

[geosatman]

Also is there a simple and or complex online reference to angles satellites transmit and related channels?

If you just mean a site that lists satellites Transponder frequencies polarity and associated channels then

[geosatman]

If a C-band LNB comes up for the right price, down the track I will re-install the original manifold as you have. Another day!

Sorry should have been clearer this feed horn is Ku only the waveguide sections are simply not big enough, C-Band would require a mod similar to what you have already done as I mentioned in a previous post there are cheap C-Band LNBs that come with a add on conical scaler ring and 60mm bracket.

[depoquery]

Copied the page, thanks for your time.

Quote: Satellite television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia provides some useful insights which will provide further information.
The Handbook on Satellite Communications, published by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) is also worth reading.
Done!

Will be off line now as part of mission other than Sat TV was to download backup OS, drivers etc and 64bit win7 software for my new computer. Plenty of reading material for latter, Cheers

[depoquery]

Commonly available "dual polarity" LNB's are generally referred to as "voltage switching" LNB's, due to the employment of 14 volts (DC) for vertical reception and 18 volts (DC) for horizontal reception. (The use of different voltages allows switching of the "probes" located in the feed horn of the LNB - the probes are positioned at right angles to each other).

Will read up on this oneday, although not familiar with the system used here. I have always dabbled in electronics and circuit design, solenoids, the like.

Photo: Sharp KU 10.7 GHz LNBF skew


Photo: Sharp KU 10.7 GHz LNBF Tin clamp for IPSTAR Dish

This works fine for me!


It would be possible, to put a piece of folded Tin, shape like that of Sharp LNBF "In the shape of a Cradle".
Put it on the existing bottom section of IPSTAR manifold mount.

The 1.2 Mtr IPSTAR Broadband dish should be over engineered for the task of D1 TV in most cases.
Lifting the LNBF by the 1mm tin thickness should make little measurable difference.
All things being accurately cut it should allow you to turn the LNB more freely without over loosening the clamp.

You might say "Why bother" as is my case!


BTW, you have some considerate and mature conversation going on around the forum.

There is strength in reevaluation of position, that politicians avoid like the plague.

[gordon_s1942]

Letting of Steam

The Government screwed remote Australia, lied and withheld info for commercial interests.
They were evasive and misleading by not plainly stating if you only want ABC the transmission would be terrestrial only requiring Satellite for Commercial reception.
I still have friends who have no TV now, and cannot or will not apply for Government scheme.
After repeated attempts to get information from Government to remote people

I was reading this and found it a bit confusing.
Firstly the remark about the ABC/SBS being 'Terrestrial' and the Commercial via satellite isnt correct as officialy I get NO terrestrial reception here and to receive only ABC/SBS I have to use VAST.

I also cant understand when you say you have friends who have no Television now and cannot or wont apply for to receive VAST.
The ABC and SBS are available to anyone via the VAST satellite no matter where you live, City,Town,Regional or Rural but to receive the 3 Commercial broadcasters, unless your a 'Traveler', the area needs to be 'Approved' as having no access to Terrestrial Television.
As for 'no information for remote people', I am certainly not that remote but I found all I needed on the Digital ready site over 2 years ago.

[depoquery]

I was reading this and found it a bit confusing.
Firstly the remark about the ABC/SBS being 'Terrestrial' and the Commercial via satellite isnt correct as officialy I get NO terrestrial reception here and to receive only ABC/SBS I have to use VAST.

I also cant understand when you say you have friends who have no Television now and cannot or wont apply for to receive VAST.
The ABC and SBS are available to anyone via the VAST satellite no matter where you live, City,Town,Regional or Rural but to receive the 3 Commercial broadcasters, unless your a 'Traveler', the area needs to be 'Approved' as having no access to Terrestrial Television.
As for 'no information for remote people', I am certainly not that remote but I found all I needed on the Digital ready site over 2 years ago.

I do not tell people what happens where they live, but I do share what happens here! What is your interest?

You have misrepresented my words, Terrestrial Digital "ABC only" was connected in Menindee after Government shifted people on Satellite that had $220 cash on day to pay installer. No information was given to Menindee residents till several weeks before the first dead line for Satellite TV offer.
The Government didn't disclose to us that Digital ABC would be terrestrially transmitted.


God forbid we should reduce the uptake of satellite for the government contracted suppliers and installers.

I, unlike many mature age in remote farming areas watch ABC. My terrestrial digital aerial for ABC was given to me by a friend, so cost me nothing.
Now I have ABC via D1 satellite and friends who would like to watch ABC again, "Have no TV" so I will give one the digital aerial for free!

Government to shire communication shows little clarity and confusion over options and responsibility for the self-help transmission tower. "I have read this correspondence after getting clearance from shire, as not private communique."



As far as, Quote: "the area needs to be 'Approved' as having no access to Terrestrial Television.
No, this is not the case in reality.

Based on the situation here, you are approved if not receiving Terrestrial Commercial Channels other than ABC!
The ABC will tell you if you are just about to be incinerated in fire, and many other basic services along with information in policy change.
This is not about entertainment, this is a basic service payed for by us through Government and supplied to all Australians free.
At least it was!

In this case the reality is, if you are remote and disadvantaged you pay more for a basic service others get for free.
In understanding the reality that someone has to pay, It's about honesty and transparency.

The Government went through this process blind with poor planing, had no answers for business with many rooms when asked.

Quote: I found all I needed on the Digital ready site over 2 years ago.

I did not find clear information which is why the Government was contacted and had no information. Could be why it was not on the net.
If the information was available on the internet, the assumption is made everybody has internet connected in remote areas with self-help towers!

I know business that have used the Subsidised home TV satellite offer to have Installed at there business.
Sorry, but I really do not care how good things are for you?

[gordon_s1942]

Sorry if I seem to have ruffled your feathers as that was not my intent because I wondered genuinely why people had no TV now.
My wording 'Approved' was based on the maps issued by Digital Ready for viewers to ascertain if they were eligible to apply for the 'Commercial' portion of VAST as I said in the beginning, the ABS and SBS are now and always have been available via Satellite where ever you live so my choice of the word 'Approved' was not fully explained.

For 6 months my area was shown as being considered by the Broadcasters for the installation of a Terrestrial service where none previously existed, so that meant for that time, anyone wanting to access the Commercial Broadcasters of VAST were unable to do so until the proposal was cancelled so I can well understand your frustrations.

I had to assist a friend in another Village get Authority for the full VAST service because of mistakes made in the details of another towns translator's coverage area.

My local council had three separate translators and no one covered by them could find out if they were to be upgraded or closed until 3 months before the changeover date and then the Digital Ready site crashed and didnt amend the relevant information for some time subsequently denying applications for VAST commercial approval.
There is one now being switched off this week as its finally been decided by the relevant Councils recently not to fund the changeover to Digital.

I obviously misinterpreted your remake that the ABC/would ONLY be available via Terrestrial and those outside the transmitters range would not be able to receive them AT ALL.

What makes sense to the writer may not do so to the reader and thats whats happened here so I apologise for my error.

[depoquery]

I have had to be very defensive of the truth and my creditability, in regards to Satellite Broadband and our experience with Digital roll-out.
Because of Government/contractors supporters out to destroy my life and credibility in order to not acknowledge valid facts, or need for address!
This includes multiple Government departments around Communications, Human Services, Health, and Employment department now hiding behind a shift in responsibility to Dep of Industry.

So apart from the fact some goon has now broken my hand, and left permanent damage! life is shit>

gordon_s1942

I am doing my best, and thank you if understanding this is not my greatest moment, void of pride in our leaders of infallible self importance at my cost.
What a mess