should the government pay for my vast box??? long rant ahead...

[Ozzyjim]

Cheers mate, I have spoken to the local MP who drafted BA and ACMA a letter but got no reply from BA and after further talks he was going to chat to the Communications Minister about the problem but this still was many months ago.. The antenna on the fact sheet is the same design as the one we have, The antenna installer lives around the corner from us and I think did the majority of installs in the area.. I have no complaints about the install as it was working perfect for 12-18 months, nothing moved in the roof to hit cables no rodents that would have chewed on anything etc.. The installer has tested everything, an independent installer tested it $99. fee, they both say there is no fault in antenna, cable points etc... ALL TV's have also been returned back to shipping condition, re-tuned etc with no help.. I spoke with the legal team at BA thinking the letter would have been ok'd by them and the lawyer that did so was reluctant to say what was in the letter..

I guess when I am better again I will have to head out with the receiver to see if it is failing at the site and wait for the letter probably mid Jan ... But it is not going to be pleasant for anyone at BA or ACMA if I find it going to no signal at the bottom of the translator.. I am sick of VAST and just want to watch terror tv without the problems..

Even with the incredibly bad weather (wind / rain / lightning etc) we don't get dropouts just this stupid network 7 issue...

[mtv]

I'd be very interested to see the screenshots of the signal measurements.

I'm very familiar with the Craigmore translators and have actually used that site for a few antenna installations in areas near you, even as far away as Para Hills, due to poor signal from Mt Lofty (the reason for the translators being installed).

The signal measurements may provide a clue and I am curious also about why reception inside your house is poor, compared to signal outside your house, assuming measurements were taken with your antenna.

Speaking of which, what make/model of antenna are you using, how and where is it mounted and is it vertically polarised?

A pic or two of the antenna would help greatly.

It's actually possible several neighbours may all be using the incorrect antenna or it is poorly sited/aligned.

Very difficult to determine without being there with test equipment.

[mtv]

... But it is not going to be pleasant for anyone at BA or ACMA if I find it going to no signal at the bottom of the translator...

You should not rely on signal measurements from the bottom of the translator (or any TX antenna for that matter).

The signals radiate outwards and very little (if any) signal radiates directly down.

Any signal readings directly below a TX antenna are most likely reflected and will provide false readings.

[viewer]

Seeing you have Vast, maybe just use the mute button when the ads are on, and you won't have to put up with the sheep fertiliser ads etc. That's not to say that ads on terrestrial are very interesting either!. At least Vast gives you the full suite of channels to view now.

[mtv]

Ozzyjim,

I've moved this thread to the Digital Terrestrial Television sub-forum, as your issue and discussion is more about your problem with terrestrial reception, not VAST satellite, which you say works fine.

[Ozzyjim]

Would it be possible to e-mail them to you directly? - I keep getting errors with file too large or about the file type.. you can pm me your e-mail addy if you like, it may take a while to upload though there is a congestion issue at our exchange and download speeds were 7kb last nite ..

the signal measurements were taken outside using a med gain uhf Yagi, not our antenna But the measurements inside were on our antenna point...

I will get a pic of our antenna when I am ok - hopefully in the next few days... It looks just like the one in the pdf and it is vert pol ..

I will test out near the tower either with a small tv / dvb-t receiver running off a inverter or a laptop with dvb-t tuner stick.

I just cant understand how we can go from a strong signal to nothing and back.. It's not like it keeps jumping around like the 10 network etc.. I have taken a video on my phone of TV's sig strength / quality meters I can send along with the screen caps from ACMA if you like..

James.

[Smacca]

Seeing you have Vast, maybe just use the mute button when the ads are on, and you won't have to put up with the sheep fertiliser ads etc. That's not to say that ads on terrestrial are very interesting either!. At least Vast gives you the full suite of channels to view now.

There are ads on VAST? :P

[Ozzyjim]

yeah those purrdy pictures and music don't last long.. haha Actually I think that's all there was when I first got it, I cant remember any ads at all...

[Ozzyjim]

A Quick update... The interval between drop-outs blew out to about 3 and a half hours when a few weeks ago it died... on ALL NETWORKS... I called BA and they thought there was a power outage I said no and several hours later TV was restored.. They blame a faulty UPS.. at the moment they are STILL waiting for a new one so no UPS available to the site.. Interestingly the interval between drop-outs reverted to around 2 and a half hours now about 2 hrs 50... Something has obviously changed but ACMA are still unwilling to try anything as they say the bursts of no signal are too short to tack the problem that both ACMA and BA claim is interference.. Hopefully a few more people are going to start calling and complaining due to the footy season - who knows...

[gordon_s1942]

Maybe you'll get lucky and when that area has the retune done, they just MIGHT fix the problem.

Talking of slow repairing, a couple of years ago during a very violent wind storm, the lattice mast of a translator was bent almost completely in half but surprisingly many it covered still had a reception of sorts.
It was well over 9 months before the mast was replaced due it said in the local paper, that there wasnt another mast available in the 'whole of Australia' !!!!

[Ozzyjim]

Well here is a long overdue update.

We are still experiencing the problems.. It has been noticed on BOTH the 7 network and 10 Network (10 Worse at the moment). After a Large amount of "no signal" messages in a short time yesterday we called network 10, got told to call BA and they SEEMED interested and said they would call back but also said 10 should be logging the calls.. Called 10 back and it looked like they did on the 2nd call. Today called BA again and the female that answered appeared to be getting a male barking in her ear about not dealing with the public and just call the network. When I told her there is a sign on the tower telling us to call them (1800 051 115) if there is any problems there was still no joy... I have received do not contact us emails from their lawyers saying there was NO problems at the site listing all the testing they have done. I PROVED the problem was at the site and told them to which BA AND ACMA both said well yes there is a problem but it is still operating within specs so we will not be repairing it... WTF can I do - VAST is sh** house for local programs as I don't get our local channels for news etc. I paid up for Poxt*l but as it is via satellite and not cable I cannot get the commercial channels...

If they had just admitted there was a problem in the first place I wouldn't have spent $99 getting our equipment re checked from a different installer to the one who re-wired our place and replaced the antenna and around $300 in portable equipment to receive TV at the towers base... And YES they refuse to repay me for the expense of proving their equipment was faulty... OH and the Expense of course 2+ years ago with the NO NO NO NO problems with our equipment, it is YOUR equipment at fault so I started buying different DVD Recorders / PVR's trying to fix it!!!!!

I just want this SH*T FIXED

Who wants a Big ol list of BA employees, their email addresses and Contact numbers????? and no I am not a total prick I will not release the private mobile numbers - tho some are available if you look around

[mtv]

In your original post on 29 Dec 2013, you said "ACMA did tests and supposedly everything was so much worse in our house to even just outside our house."

As I had suggested previously, the issue is more likely to be in your house, if signals outside were OK.

You have not posted the screenshots and pics of your antenna as you said you would do "hopefully in the next few days" on 30 Dec 2013... and you are complaining about others not being timely?

You have VAST... it works.

The programming is almost identical. Sure, you don't get metro news, which I do agree with you is frustrating, but at least you have reliable reception.

As I have explained before, you do not take signal readings at the base of a transmission site, as the signals do not radiate directly down.

I have a relative in Para Hills who receives signals from the Craigmore translators fine. I did the antenna installation and there were no problems then either.

No transmission site can be guaranteed to be 100% problem-free... they all have problems from time to time and I don't dispute Craigmore probably has had issues at some time.

How about posting signal reports taken inside your home from the installers, quoting DCP, BER and MER for each of the channels both pre Viterbi and post Viterbi, together with the pics and make/model of antenna and a description of the signal distribution system... splitters, amp, etc.

Perhaps there is some form of local interference.... I can't and nobody else on this forum can tell without actually being there with test equipment, but detailed info and pics 'may' indicate something.

It's one thing for you you to be critical about others, but you yourself have not done what you said you would do either.

[Ozzyjim]

Gday Mate,

I thought I e-mailed you the files from ACMA?.. Apologies If I have not.. (Edit: I have found where I sent you the e-mail 30/12/13 with the zip file "Craigmore Investigation.zip". It was sent to your yahoo address) True ACMA did say they were much worse inside the house than outside - I cannot understand how though as everything was upgraded and re-checked by a different (independent) installer. The ACMA Technician claimed to check the signal from outside our house but I am not sure where outside - Possibly the side as we did not see him out the front. I do know through e-mails with ACMA that they use a flat panel antenna and not one like ours (still a new UHF in the right band)... Your rello's in Para Hills are doing well to get the Craigmore tower





I could see a LOCAL interference issue affecting ME, MY Neighbours etc But NOT powerful enough to overpower the site that is about 1.2km from me UNLESS it is on the input side of the transmitter and thus affecting EVERYONE who uses that tower. However Broadcast Australia have now said THERE IS A FAULT at SITE 5073..

I know the Issue appeared at the same time at the base of the tower and my house as I recorded the broadcast at home, while I was watching it on the portable gear at the base of the tower (also recorded that on a handycam)

Out of interest Para Hills averages 13.5km from the tower - what type of antenna did you use? I presume you used a Booster too?..

[gordon_s1942]

You are sure having fun and games but this Digital TV is a right bloody pain.
You may find this hard to accept but I have a 97 element Yagi 110 metres away to receive the local translator 13 kms away which isnt too unexpected but as MTV can attest, where I have it located is a 'WINDOW' with the antenna 2 metres off the ground and I cannot move it 500mm Left or Right or I WILL loose the signal.
To matter matters worse the translator is a beamed signal and I am some 60 degrees off the beam and the signal has to go over and down a ridge line between me and the Translator.
Just recently I became aware of a township who is on the border of the Sydney Metropolitan coverage area, have been experiencing reception problems seeming of late and after test were conducted by the ACMA, the problem appears to be the recent 'Roll Out' by Optus of their 4G network and those affected by this interference have been told to buy at their own expense, a $15 filter to eliminate the problem !!!

What I am trying to say is that based on my experience here, Digital signals do 'Duct' and if like me your in the path of one, good luck.
For a brief period before analog was to be switched off, a Translator was proposed for my area but most likely because of the small population it would cover, we reverted back to being classed as a VAST area.

Going on their attitude and by the ACMA coverage map you posted, your in a Variable area ( your case 'Lousy') and as such you 'lucky' to have any reception at all Terrestrially.

So all I can see you hoping for is that in the future, your area expands and with more people to cover and who complain enough at the poor reception, who ever holds the licenses for that area will install a more suitably located Translator unless you can come up with a Couple of Hundred Thousand Dollars and 'Do it Yourselves'.

[Ozzyjim]

Gday Mate, No problems as such receiving the signal, the fault shows itself at the tower the same time as the house - Tested several times and Broadcast Australia now do admit a fault exists there but are unwilling to fix it stating it is within "specs".. The coverage map above is a general one for Para Hills where MTV's rellos are..

Craigmore Coverage map is:





I live just north of the indicated point of Craigmore but only a few hundred meters away.

The No signal events can sometimes be un noticed for a day or 3... But Friday we had I think a total of 9 within 20 minutes on the 10 network and then later we had one after 7 pm on the 7 network.. I know it could be as simple as a cockroach crawling along a pcb (known to short circuit even 240v and still able to crawl away).. It is just really frustrating when It works so well for so long until it cuts out - REPEATEDLY.. and there is a acknowledged fault, I just wish I knew how often it can fail and for how long before it is out of "spec"...

Out of interest does ANYONE here work for BA or know anyone who does? --- I have something they may like to pass along to the network ops centre employees!!!

[mtv]

... Out of interest Para Hills averages 13.5km from the tower - what type of antenna did you use? I presume you used a Booster too?..

Log periodic antenna, no amp.

[Ozzyjim]

As Provided by our installer and most popular among local residents - no booster

[lsemmens]

Actaully Ozzyjim, that does not look unlike my aerial which is around 100km from the tx. (edit) my signal is great, and no amps that I can see . The aerial was installed as part of the gov'ts program for pensioners and the like. (FWIW - my old analogue aerial which feeds the rest of the house -amplified with a cheapie off the shelf splitter, works quite well still.)

[Ozzyjim]

Actaully Ozzyjim, that does not look unlike my aerial which is around 100km from the tx. (edit) my signal is great, and no amps that I can see . The aerial was installed as part of the gov'ts program for pensioners and the like. (FWIW - my old analogue aerial which feeds the rest of the house -amplified with a cheapie off the shelf splitter, works quite well still.)

What translator are you using?..

I guess it may just be that most people do not complain because it is still better than when most of us were using the Mt Loft site.. I can't understand though how if the equipment has a fault - why not fix it? - in my experience dodgy electrical equipment will fail quicker than if everything is working well..

Just some things of note though,

When the tower completely failed due to a faulty UPS - it changed the frequency of the no signal events.
When some periodic maintenance was done - it changed the frequency of the no signal events.

I could understand a faulty UPS giving bursts of interference and cutting the signal - but it still occurred after it was replaced.
I could understand maintenance having an effect on it if something was drifting off frequency and it was repaired, however I was told by the technician that NOTHING got changed during the maintenance - it was only a check-up..

Is it me or of all the mySwitch website listed towers listed, NO BA sites list previous or current faults/repair work?

I have admit I am jealous of my sister for the fact that Poxtel at Para Hills is via cable and so she gets the commercial channels with no worries ..

[mtv]

As Provided by our installer and most popular among local residents - no booster

The antenna looks like a cheap model that is known to deteriorate. (not that cost matters as much as long as it works)

The driven element looks bent... just an optical illusion?

A yagi antenna of that type is generally OK for good signal areas.

Other antenna types which 'can' perform better than a yagi in marginal signal situations are the (particularly good for vertical polarised signals, such as those from the Craigmore site)

And the which has excellent BER figures.

There are also narrow-band yagi antennas which are designed to reduce signals outside of the operating frequency range they are tuned for.

It it also vitally important that not only the most suitable antenna for a given installation location is selected by comparative testing, but that the mounting position of the antenna is also selected for optimum performance.

Did both installers you used actually perform a comprehensive site signal test with different antennas to determine the best mounting location and height?

Many installers fail to do this, just installing the cheapest antenna in the easiest, quickest and cheapest mounting option.

Many installers just use the same antenna for every job in a particular area.... however, what works well for your neighbour, does not necessarily mean it's the best option for you.

A lot of additional signals now occupy what used to be part of the UHF TV band, such as LTE.

It's possible some of these signals are causing some interference.

A simple inexpensive LTE filter generally solves that problem.

All of these things individually can cause reception issues, but when combined, increase unreliability.

Craigmore was a terrible area for reception from the main Mt Lofty transmitters, which is why the translators were established.

With the exception of any transmission site issues, reception from those translators has always proved to be excellent with any antenna installations I have done in the area.

Once again, it's impossible to know exactly what the signals are doing at your location without being there to test them, but I suspect part of the issue is with your reception and not just all transmission related.