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Thread: Solution 880 Microcontroller type?

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    Default Solution 880 Microcontroller type?

    Hi there,

    The Solution 880 (REV F 3/98) alarm panel PCB has a 64 pin QFP Microcontroller labelled as U6 and the identifying markings have been ground away. I would like to know the Manufacturer and Model of U6 so I have been searching through pinouts of various microcontrollers (circa 1998) for sometime now but still haven't been able to identify it. Is it possible one of the forum readers already knows this? as I would really appreciate knowing too!

    Your kind help would be greatly appreciated.
    Bruce

    P.S If there are any Circuit Diagrams for the PCB in the wild, a copy would be nice too......



Look Here ->
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    HAHA that was a good one!

    I can't possibly think of any reason this information would be required other than trying to save a bit of cash on replacing a dodgy controller, a new PCB isn't all that expensive.

    But to answer your question, the only circuit diagrams in (public) existence are the ones in the installation manual and are very basic at that. I'm guessing that sort of information would be covered by a NDA.

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    Not quite sure what you mean by "HAHA that was a good one!"

    Actually your guess is far from the reason I asked.
    One of my passions is reverse engineering old electronics and interfacing them to new technology. Most of the time circuit diagrams are not available but sometimes they can be found "in the wild" oh and when I say "in the wild" I mean they have already escaped the NDA's and are either freely or "when asked for" available on the Internet from friendly ex-employees or service engineers. The project using the Solution 880 involves a WiFi interface, GSM SMS notification, Web integration and an Android app for the purpose of but not limited to - remote alarm monitoring, panel activation/de-activation and programming. Most of the hardware is finalised but I have need to know the panels CPU architecture also.
    Maybe you will call me crazy but it's what I like to do and I am very good at it! so all I ask is if a forum member can help me, maybe no-one can but for me it's not a funny question.

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    My apologies good sir, you have no idea how many people come here looking for a cheap way around a $150 system replacement on an old system well past it's used by date.

    What I mean by "HAHA...." Is we don't get given nor have any need for that kind of stuff, in my 15 odd years working on these panels I haven't seen anything even remotely resembling a circuit diagram for the Bosch/EDM panels. even looking back on the old 908 stuff where they may possibly be needed there isn't much.

    I will check some of the old panels I have laying around and see if they may have missed scrubbing the numbers off but I highly doubt anything would be there.

    Have you tried talking to Bosch?

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    Oh and it's an interesting idea you have, nice common panel so I definitely see a market for what you're doing!

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    If you're going to reverse engineer something, can I suggest something a bit more recent?

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    Hi there and thanks for taking the time to reply and also having a look through your collection for me. It is highly possible that the manual process of removing the identification may have left remnants of it behind. One method that is widely used is to rub a little bit of spit (yes saliva) to the top of the chip and if lucky the number will miraculously (albeit faintly) appear. Obviously just enough spit on the top and not to let it run over the edge of the chip.
    From what I have read and experienced (I have one) the Solution 880 (aka Bosch Ultima 880 or ???) is a highly reliable but unfortunately limited alarm panel. It does all the basics very well but does not have (some of) the modern interfaces. Actually I like old electronics, especially those that have "stood the test of time" and giving them a new lease of life. It seems a shame that usually the only reason for decommissioning such a system is because it doesn't do something that a new system does.
    Well as I said it's a passion of mine so it's easy for me to justify.
    So thanks for your help and anyone else who may have some way to help me.

    Kind regards,
    Bruce
    Last edited by brutisb; 06-01-14 at 11:47 AM.

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    Pro tip: Turn off the power AND remove the battery before licking the PCB.

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    The initial approach I used to try and identify this Microcontroller was using the pins that I could verify like VSS, VDD, XTAL and comparing them to manufactures datasheets but there are so, so, so many manufactures and datasheets..... Well basically that came to no success and seemed like an (almost) never ending process anyway.
    So I was trying to think of another approach, colour of the package, any identifiable moulding marks, etc and then it struck me...... the top of this chip has two moulding marks and a moulding mark to identify pin 1 so after scrolling through hundreds of pictures on Google image search I found that NEC uses those exact moulding marks!
    So I had found the most likely manufacturer...... I googled "NEC microcontrollers" and with those datasheets was able to identify the chip as a uPD78/K0 series microcontroller.
    There there are many different interfaces and configurations for that series but all are based on the uPD78001 architecture. Unfortunately I couldn't find an exact match so I think they (EDM) had NEC put a couple of custom interfaces on the dye.
    So with that and a couple of days I have managed to reverse engineer most of the circuitry around the Microcontroller.

    Next and currently ongoing, are hours of struggling to talk to the panel via the Auxiliary Module interface (where the CC808 Direct Link cable plugs in and you can communicate with it using the A-Link Plus software) I have made a RS232 to TTL interface (I don't have a CC808 cable) and so I don't know the exact connection method.
    I contacted the distributor in NZ and the CC808 cable is $150.... Ouch!! oh poor me..............

    Now if some kind soul out there could take some hi-res photo's of what's inside a CC808 (both sides of the PCB) and what pins are connected on the cable that plugs into the Auxiliary connector, I would thank them very much.

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    Update: Don’t worry about the CC808 direct cable inside photo's as I'm very close to discovering the interface type and communication protocol.

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    Hi Bruce,
    Did you have any luck reverse engineering this?

    I'm also trying to make my own CC808 serial cable. I'm thinking (and hoping) the CC808 "cable" is just a TTL to RS232 adapter circuit like my solution 16's overpriced "cable"

    Fortunately my Solution 880 board hasn't had it's CPU chip markings ground away! It's labelled as...
    ULTIMA CC48X
    1-08 708
    0306KPC22


    Unfortunately Google shows nothing so it's most definitely a custom production run. Good find about the NEC markings though - I was pondering over that too!


    Can you outline your findings about Aux Module Connector and which pins are required for a TTL to Serial interface?

    Or if anyone can snap a photo of the CC808 circuit board that would be most handy too!
    Last edited by Earthling; 25-03-14 at 01:03 AM.

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    Default Cc808

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Hi Bruce,
    Did you have any luck reverse engineering this?

    I'm also trying to make my own CC808 serial cable. I'm thinking (and hoping) the CC808 "cable" is just a TTL to RS232 adapter circuit like my solution 16's overpriced "cable"

    Fortunately my Solution 880 board hasn't had it's CPU chip markings ground away! It's labelled as...
    ULTIMA CC48X
    1-08 708
    0306KPC22


    Unfortunately Google shows nothing so it's most definitely a custom production run. Good find about the NEC markings though - I was pondering over that too!


    Can you outline your findings about Aux Module Connector and which pins are required for a TTL to Serial interface?

    Or if anyone can snap a photo of the CC808 circuit board that would be most handy too!
    ******************

    Hi - I know it's been 3 years since the post and you might not be around anymore, but I too am trying to find a CC808 Direct Link Cable from Bosch. Did you manage to find one or make one yourself please?
    If so, where did you buy it, or how did you make it!!! :-)
    Many thanks!!!

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    If anyone is interested (after another 3+ years), I took thelabel off my spare CC488 board chip and discovered that it is a D78F0534 chip(very similar to that brutsib determined). I've had very little luck though, intrying to trace the pins back to the auxiliary connection. I think I was havingmore success when I though it was a D78F0034A chip! (using datasheets from )

    Anyhow, I may just have a stab at interfacing via an arduinousing the following instruction:

    This chap had a solution 16 and he notes auxiliary connectionsare PIN 3 (Rx), PIN 4 (Gnd), PIN 7 (Tx). Lets hope these are the samefor CC488 and Solution 880 which I have!-)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazaroni View Post
    ******************

    Hi - I know it's been 3 years since the post and you might not be around anymore, but I too am trying to find a CC808 Direct Link Cable from Bosch. Did you manage to find one or make one yourself please?
    If so, where did you buy it, or how did you make it!!! :-)
    Many thanks!!!
    I've not been around - but I just so happened to stumble across that YesThomas page today too..... and his pinout WORKED perfect!


    So finally after all these years I can now easily program this pretty much useless & outdated panel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I've not been around - but I just so happened to stumble across that YesThomas page today too..... and his pinout WORKED perfect!


    So finally after all these years I can now easily program this pretty much useless & outdated panel.
    I tried it in my ICP-CC408 panel but without any success. I think it is the same like Ultima-880 but it is for Europe.

    Actually I am trying to decode the protocol used for these legacy panels. So far I have found that A-LINK sends an 'h" character for initiating the communication at 300 bps!
    But I still can't get any answer from the board.

    Any clues or suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I've not been around - but I just so happened to stumble across that YesThomas page today too..... and his pinout WORKED perfect!


    So finally after all these years I can now easily program this pretty much useless & outdated panel.

    Sorry for themassively sporadic posts. Another few months passed!



    @Earthling - Sodid you actually get comms working between the Alarm link software and youralarm panel via Arduino? If so can you confirm what alarm panel you have, whichpins you connected and any other settings. I have it set up but cant software failsto connect (so Im not 100% sure I am connecting to correct pins on panel). I amcurrently testing with CC488 panel (but I also have a Solution 880 Ultima panelI could test with). Any hints or tips would be appreciated.


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    Quote Originally Posted by evzone View Post
    I tried it in my ICP-CC408 panel but without any success. I think it is the same like Ultima-880 but it is for Europe.

    Actually I am trying to decode the protocol used for these legacy panels. So far I have found that A-LINK sends an 'h" character for initiating the communication at 300 bps!
    But I still can't get any answer from the board.

    Any clues or suggestions?
    Hi evzone,

    Sounds like youare making more progress than I am.

    Ive beentracing circuit board runs and there also seem to be connections to the alarmpanel modem chip (Si2400). The following is a link to the datasheet ()and this does indicate that an H is used toconnect/disconnect so I guess you are on the right track. Maybe this extrainfo can help in your investigations?

    I am still strugglingto make any connection (via Alarm link or any serial console (like putty)). Canconfirm what alarm panel you have, what and how you are connecting (i.e. what physicalinterfaces / pin connections, what software you are using) and any other settings.

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