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    Good stuff weirdo, looks great. Also its good that you pointed out that no matter what state you are in you cannot take tarrifs with you......if you move thats the end of it and if you moved in to a new home for example that had existing solar you would get whatever the standard default tarrif is.

    The days of these big tarrifs are gone, realistically they cost everyone a fortune. Anyone that doesnt have solar is basically subsidising everyone that is.

    Oceanboy, here is a couple of snapshots pricewise on systems :

    Quote on 30th March 2010. $8932 for 3kWh system
    – 16 x Solar Enertech 185W panels
    – 1 x Xantrex 2.8 kW Inverter


    $9100 3KW
    $8600 3KW May/June 2010

    Prices ripped from Whirlpool discussion.

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  • #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlocker View Post
    Thanks for confirming my doubts regarding the companies to stay away from. I always had my doubts about these companies who heavily advertise on TV
    offering fantastic deals at budget price.
    My main concern is how would I know what brand panel they are installing and the quality of inverter supplied.
    They could tell me one thing and install something else. Its not like I can visually tell the difference.
    I have also heard that if you get a shadow or shade on 1 panel on your grid it prevents production of power for the whole system. (Is this true?)
    There are also other systems where shading to 1 panel on your grid of panels will not prevent the others from producing power. (is this also correct?)

    Thanks to everyone for input to this topic, and Admin for starting it.
    Weirdo has answered most of your post but as to hardware :

    There are all sorts of claimed 20-30 year warranties but realistically no one has had anything running that long.

    In a nutshell, if you wanted to go with what installers and most customers spruik as the better stuff, from an inverter point of view SMA would come out on top. Aurora is also well liked, Fronius doesnt seem to have any bad feedback. There are a lot of different brand panels, this is an even harder one. Pretty much the ducks guts is Q Cell and you will pay a premium to get them. Trina are a reasonable priced and well spoken of panel.

    Having said all that, different people have different opinions. The above is based on me reguarly reading solar discussion for the last 2 years. There is plenty of "holden v's ford" type discussion on brands. if you were going ahead with Solar, I would recommend posting up what they are offering you and get a bit of feedback and even good old Google can be very helpfull.

    Re; My comments on companies, here is an online review of Tru Value Solar


    From memory I also remember a notice on that site saying fake positive reviews all from the one IP address had been removed.

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  • #43
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    Re Solar not adding vale to your home, I came across this on an Australian site. I will presume it is true as the claims dont appear to be outrageous. I just noticed the NBER is US based, but still, its a small increase and not a decrease.

    Not only does adding solar panels reduce or remove your power bills it has the added benefit of adding value to your house. A recent study by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) found that investing in solar panels could increase the value of your home by up to 4%. Their studies showed those houses with solar technology consistently outpaced houses (of similar dimensions and standing) without solar by often 10s of 1000s of dollars.
    Based on 4%, thats an extra 22-24K value to my home. But regardless, any real estate agent worth his fee would be spruiking the benefits to potential buyers.

  • #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post

    I can see the next thing in Home Solar will be the use of Deep Cycle Batteries to store some of your Solar Energy as Off Peak Grid Charges rise in the future.
    The irony in that is, i was installing exactly these type of systems 25 years ago for Remote Area Supplies (Homes that were off the grid due to their location).
    It would be nice wouldnt it

    My inlaws live in country victoria and have off grid solar. Although they didnt build the house, it was built in 1980 and he only replaced the BP solar batteries a few years back, so maybe 25 years he got from them ?

    Their only energy cost is bottled gas for their fridge and stove cook top. Their solar is not overly large, but there is only the 2 of them. He fires up a generator to use the washing machine.

    I am also building a new garage shortly and am considering putting some panels on the roof with batteries for a bit of fun.

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    I suppose when you think about it, for the Power Retailers to buy back your excess Solar Power generation for 0.08 Cents/Kwh and then they in turn get to resell that for 30Cents Kw/h... Its a good revenue stream for them.

    I can see storage will be the next thing after Solar Panels, Even a Community Managed Bulk Storage. Although this is going away from Green Energy.
    Makes you wonder where the exported 240V power goes? You can only transmit 240V so far.
    And when Solar is on 80% of homes, where is it going?

    To add admin, i've only ever done Solar Jobs using the SMA Sunnyboy Inverter.
    I have no idea how good it is or not, but you see a lot of them.

    Inverter DC to AC efficiency and solar panels that have minimal loss during shading seem be the new keys issues, especially as panels get near the threshold for per square meter Watt production.
    I have read that the sun dispenses 700W per square meter on the earths surface.
    How that figure is derived i have no idea, especially with so many environmental changes.

    So long as it saves your hard earned money

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    It would be nice wouldnt it

    My inlaws live in country victoria and have off grid solar. Although they didnt build the house, it was built in 1980 and he only replaced the BP solar batteries a few years back, so maybe 25 years he got from them ?

    Their only energy cost is bottled gas for their fridge and stove cook top. Their solar is not overly large, but there is only the 2 of them. He fires up a generator to use the washing machine.

    I am also building a new garage shortly and am considering putting some panels on the roof with batteries for a bit of fun.
    Yep. thats word for word exactly how these homes i did 25 years ago were set up.

    BP 2volt 600Ah hour batteries
    BP Solar Panels
    Inverter/Charger combination unit with Auto Genset start up when Battery Low Voltage.
    Diesel Gen Set
    Gas Fridge and Cooking

    As for your shed admin, it not longer a bit of fun. It actually functional.
    I have 2 x 100Ah 12volt batteries for camping, i used to leave them on the a 240v CTek trickle charger to maintain them while in the workshop ready for the next outing.
    Then i purchased a 160Watt Folding Solar Panel for longer stays away.
    Instead of using the Ctek Charger which was plugged into a power point costing me money, i just leave the Solar panel on roof of workshop and it charges and maintains those batteries for free.
    Over summer i ran the 12Volt Waeco fridge off the batteries, all self sufficient.
    60litre Waeco used 22.5 Amps over a 24hour period,
    160Watt panels were delivering 7-8 Amps of charge an hour between 10am and 4pm, around 4-5 Amps at fringe times, more than my needs

    Great drinks fridge option for summer and it can come with me where ever i go.
    And if it gets empty, i don't feel guilty that it is running
    Being a 12Volt Fridge, there is no need for an inverter and its losses.
    Or you could buy an older 2Kw inverter off eBay and run a domestic fridge in workshop
    Its just handy and peace of mind to know you have power to charge mobile phones or Laptops if the power was to go out and you want to monitor bush fire activity.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 21-01-14 at 11:00 AM.

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    No matter what you select now in a few years time there is going to be either some thing cheaper and/or better, see the attached article in The Moaist Times yesterday

    Last edited by allover; 21-01-14 at 04:47 PM.
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    No matter what you select now in a few years time there is going to be either some thing cheaper and/or better, see the attached article in The Moaist Times yesterday

    I hope its not another repeat of Australia pioneering the way, then not getting the support, it gets sold to Germany, then we buy it back off them, as so many Solar related products have done in the passed.

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    ill but in
    we had true value do ours last yr
    14-16 panels i think., 5500$ ?
    this bill was 200 from 4-500 last times
    https://www.facebook.com/philquad68

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    Question?, do solar panels require replacement after 10 years of use, if so i gather you would have to write the cost of solar installation off over the same amount of time? ie solar installation $7,000, your savings would have to be $700 per year plus interest charges if you had borrowed the money or invested the money?
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    I read somewhere today that these people have had 25 years of good service from their Solar Panels.
    They mention over 40 years on this site.

    You just hope that Solar Panel manufacturers don't plan obsolesce in their panels for more business.
    In all the Solar work i've done, i've never replaced panel because they stopped working, batteries however, heaps!

    I think you'll find that Solar Panel technology will see you replacing them with panels 6 times the capacity and 1/5 the cost before they end up failing. On thing to look out for, is rust or electrolysis from dissimilar metals used on the panels (Alloy) and the roof frame (sometimes its Gal) where they are bolted together.
    But, if you got a good installers, it will all be Alloy.

    The Inverter will give out and start blowing capacitors (which is mostly whats in them) well before your panels fail.
    I'd say 15 years from an Inverter and your starting to head into the danger zone.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 21-01-14 at 08:43 PM.

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    In today's' edition of The Maoist Times (Fairfax Press under Money) is a comprehensive article re cost effectiveness of Solar Systems especially in Victoria. Conclusions put in a simple system and run all appliances such as washing machines etc in day light hours, do not install a large system in the hope of making money on the rebate as any extra money is better spent on such things as draft prevention, more efficient appliances such as a/c, fridges, freezers etc. Price increases in electricity will not be as severe as they have been in the past. Failing this if you are hell bent on solar power move to South Australia where there is abundant light because you ain't going to get it in Victoria
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    In today's' edition of The Maoist Times (Fairfax Press under Money) is a comprehensive article re cost effectiveness of Solar Systems especially in Victoria. Conclusions put in a simple system and run all appliances such as washing machines etc in day light hours, do not install a large system in the hope of making money on the rebate as any extra money is better spent on such things as draft prevention, more efficient appliances such as a/c, fridges, freezers etc. Price increases in electricity will not be as severe as they have been in the past. Failing this if you are hell bent on solar power move to South Australia where there is abundant light because you ain't going to get it in Victoria
    Here is the article

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    Some of those TVS figures are pretty staggering.
    Can you imagine the amount of Toyota Vans they have bought!

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    I had Daniel from Solar Sunwerx around yesterday and he had a look at my roof and we then went inside and talked solar for a good half an hour or more....probably closer to an hour. A very nice bloke, not pushy at all, in fact he recommended a system smaller than what I want to go so he certainly doesnt try and push things on to you that you dont need.

    He recommended a 5kw system but also gave me a quote on some a bit bigger, I will make a decision by the end of the day. As I mentioned earlier, price is NOT my number one consideration. I have enough crap to deal with as it is from incompetent idiots like my builder and shire and have no intention of having half arsed clowns climbing all over my roof and adding more dramas to my life. I am going with Solar Sunwerx on reputation and thats reputation over several years.

    I had a good talk with him about what gear they use, they use Samil inverters and Jinko panels. I was prepared to spend more on basically "ducks guts" stuff but now I am wondering if it is really worthwhile. I'll list the reasons why below and will also attach all the documentation I have for the hardware :

    Panels : As I mentioned, they use Jinko. Who or what are Jinko ? Jinko are a large chinese manufacturer and offer a 25 year guarantee on panels and the panels come with a "plus 3" rating which means they will perform somewhere between what they are rated at and 3% more. Obviously this means they will not under perform. Their efficiency rated is excellent.

    Invertor : is a great source of info for Australian Solar and after reading their opinion, and probably more importantly , I am prepared to give Samil a go. After doing a fair bit of reading, I dont think paying the premium for an SMA is worth it. There is no doubt they are a great item but they charge accordingly and its not going to produce anymore power than anything else.

    There are plenty of solar "purists" who will say dont buy anything chinese its all junk but of course if we all went with that scenario most of us wouldnt be sitting here having this conversation. Obviously there is plenty of chinese top end stuff, anyone with a high end mobile like an iphone has chinese "junk"

    Daniel also mentioned they have a direct ongoing relationship with Samil and Jinko and on the odd chance there is a problem, its dealt with quickly. he said they have basically no issues with either and wouldnt use them if they did as it costs them too much to have to send people out to replace items. they appear to have a lot of faith in their products.

    Edit : cant attach docs as I am on a public computer, will post them this arvo when I get home.

    Oh, price and specs copied exactly from quotation :

    20 x Jinko Polycrystaline Photovoltaic Panels $10,330

    1 x Samil 5.2 kw Inverter

    Antai T-Rail Tile Roof Mounting Kit 20 panels (992 x 45mm panel dimension)

    1 x Electrical kit 20 panels

    1 x Balance of System 3.5kw to 5kw (Single MPPT)

    1 x PV Installation Flat Rate

    20 x PV Installation per panel (992 mm panel width)

    1 x Efergy Meter e2

    -88 Small Scale Technology Certificate - $3080

    Total including GST $7,250

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post

    Panels : As I mentioned, they use Jinko. Who or what are Jinko ? Jinko are a large chinese manufacturer and offer a 25 year guarantee on panels and the panels come with a "plus 3" rating which means they will perform somewhere between what they are rated at and 3% more. Obviously this means they will not under perform. Their efficiency rated is excellent.
    All the panels I bought had testing figures included (see pic)
    as you can see, panels were sold as 285 Watt types but even the worst one was tested with 290 Watts output


    EDIT looks like the pic uploaded to the site is way too small to read so try this >
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by weirdo; 23-01-14 at 05:43 PM.

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    Thanks Admin
    After reading you were going with solar sunwerx, I jumped on their website and booked a quote.
    Daniel rang me today and made appointment to come out. They are located convenient to me also.
    Not many kms away.
    On the phone I asked him what panels they use and he said Jinko with Samil Inverter.
    When he told me they were Chinese, I thought Oh No!
    But I will listen to what he has to say when he comes out in 2 weeks.

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    No good for us in WA

    We don't have daylight savings.








    On a serious note, I went for a run last night and was puzzled at the location of these units on neighbouring houses, some faced north, some faced west. Surely facing North would be the go.
    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hughdman View Post
    No good for us in WA

    We don't have daylight savings.
    Consider yourself lucky mate
    imagine having to spend thousands on replacing your faded curtains






    Quote Originally Posted by hughdman View Post

    On a serious note, I went for a run last night and was puzzled at the location of these units on neighbouring houses, some faced north, some faced west. Surely facing North would be the go.
    Thoughts?
    North facing is best
    But i saying that, my brother has exactly the same system as mine but whereas my roof faces due north, his roof faces more east and is quite steep
    so he gets full sun from sunrise but that fades out as the day progresses
    mine is better in the middle of the day but I start to get partial shading from a couple of tall trees from about 2 pm onwards (getting progressively worse)
    so I have a bit more tree lopping to do
    under current conditions my brothers system outperforms mine by a fraction
    the other thing to consider in the summer months is heat
    the hotter the panel get, the less efficient they become
    I've been toying with the idea to make a type of misting sprinkler system hooked up to my rainwater tank to cool the panels on hot days but I'm just too freakin lazy

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    Quote Originally Posted by weirdo View Post

    North facing is best
    On a higher export tariff it is. If your aiming to cancel power usage during daytime a East/West arrangement can be more effective.

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