Motorised C-band question

**Thala Dan** · 18-01-14, 10:34 AM

Finally got around to setting up the C-band system (see photo).

Please note that the integrated barbecue idea has now been patented.

To my great delight (and even greater surprise) the dish tracked from AS5 to IS19 on first powerup.
Seems that there’s something to be said for reading, planning, and measuring before taking up the tools.
Still have to do a bit of pushing and shoving of the dish, and play with the mount, as most satellites are only coming in at around 60% quality, so I think a bit of tweaking is in order.
LNB is dual-output, and will run into a Multiswitch feeding three receivers around the house. One receiver (Strong SRT 4930) will be the one controlling the V-box.
And here’s the question:
I’d like to put the Phoenix V-box in a small store-room very near to the dish – this will cut down on overpopulation in the entertainment unit, and reduce the motor cable run.
This will involve a coax run (RG6 Quad) of around 40 metres between the Strong and the V-box.
Can’t find any information in this area, so was wondering if a cable run of this length will be OK for Disecq comms between box and controller?

**beer4life** · 18-01-14, 10:51 AM

I cannot see any problems, others are running up to 100 M.

You make a fantastic Brick Layer.

**weirdo** · 18-01-14, 04:02 PM

Like beer4life said, should be no problem mate.
I'm running about the same distance without hassles.
Neat way to install your dish mate, if you park the dish looking straight up and stoke a big enough fire you can cook steaks on your wok

**gordon_s1942** · 18-01-14, 04:12 PM

Is that cable I see from the bottom rim of the dish to the picture left side of the BBQ to hang the Prawns from to get the full benefit of the Hickory smoke as you baste the Wagyu steaks as weirdo says on the mesh of the dish?

That is a great job there but personally I would prefer the dish and its parts well away from any smoke and flames when the BBQ is being used.

**mkhannah** · 18-01-14, 05:18 PM

With that size dish on a motor I would be happy with an average of 60% quality for that sats I tune in to.
Especially with the BBQ cooking

**Thala Dan** · 18-01-14, 06:08 PM

You make a fantastic Brick Layer.

Wish I could claim credit, but the bbq has been there for 30+ years since the house was built, well before our arrival.

I'm kinda hoping that having a dish stapled to its back won't change things in that regard.

If, during one of those regular Victorian storms, anyone notices a C-band dish go flying by with a brick barbecue in tow, please let me know.

Neat way to install your dish mate, if you park the dish looking straight up and stoke a big enough fire you can cook steaks on your wok

Mate, that's the guts of the patent application

....to hang the Prawns from to get the full benefit of the Hickory smoke as you baste the Wagyu steaks....

Bugger....didn't think of that one....wonder if I can get that application back.

....I would prefer the dish and its parts well away from any smoke and flames when the BBQ is being used.

Actually, the poor old brick barbie has been retired for a while now....been replaced by one of those new-fangled gas things that the Chinese churn out like butter-boxes.

At least I found a use to hopefully extend its useful life.

With that size dish on a motor I would be happy with an average of 60% quality for that sats I tune in to.

At the moment I can only go on my Ku experience, which is more like 80%+ - perhaps that's a bit of a reach in the C-band?

Frankly, I'd been downright stunned if I had managed to hit it right on the nose from the start - I am already stunned that I actually managed to see any damn thing at switch-on.

Anyhow, a bit of pushing and pulling will tell the tale, but not until the temperature drops below the melting point of silicon.

Come to think of it, the way the weather has been down this way, I could probably cook on the dish without even firing up the barbecue.

Thanks for all the input.

**mkhannah** · 18-01-14, 07:39 PM

Yes you will get much better quality 80+ on a ku dish looking at C1/D3. You will find on the stronger sats you receive that you can kiss goodbye to rain fade as well with c band. Except perhaps in the very worst of worst weather.

**Thala Dan** · 18-01-14, 09:55 PM

OK – here’s an update on the barbecue dish.

Found the signal improved lifting the dish on both sides of the arc – so tweaked the elevation up, and got a modest improvement on both sides.

Fiddled with the LNB FD and skew – no real change, so that was reasonably close to the mark.

Did a scan of five satellites and this is the resulting range of SS/SQ:

Asiasat 5:
Strength: 80 – 89
Quality: 65 – 78

Asiasat 3:
Strength: 79 – 84
Quality: 59 – 64

Palapa D:
Strength: 80 – 85
Quality: 63 – 78

Apstar 6:
Strength: 80 – 85
Quality: 59 – 75

IS19:
Strength: 80 – 83
Quality: 60 – 67

Location is Northeast Victoria – just wondering do these readings look right for this location?

The box is a SRT 4922, which just arrived yesterday - so far I'm reasonably impressed.

Next job is to get the SRT4930 to talk to the V-box - I have manually stored the five satellite position directly into the V-box - when I connect the 4930 and activate Disecq 1.2 will I have to start over again, or will the 4930 automatically recognise the five satellite positions already stored in the V-box?

**weirdo** · 19-01-14, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Thala Dan

Location is Northeast Victoria – just wondering do these readings look right for this location?

Only someone with the exact same box and dish size can comment on that

Originally Posted by Thala Dan

Next job is to get the SRT4930 to talk to the V-box - I have manually stored the five satellite position directly into the V-box - when I connect the 4930 and activate Disecq 1.2 will I have to start over again, or will the 4930 automatically recognise the five satellite positions already stored in the V-box?

The 4930 won't recognize the saved positions on your V-box automatically
The easiest way would be to use the V-box remote to drive to each saved sat position
alternatively you can just drive the dish through the 4930's menu on each sat whilst on a relevant transponder and scan them in

**Thala Dan** · 21-01-14, 05:08 PM

Weirdo,
Sorry for the delay responding - spent the last couple of days up a variety of ladders running coax all over the house, and LNB and motor cables to the multiswitch and controller - and the last 24 hours tearing out the last of my remaining hair.
You see, everything was going swimmingly - so I decided to button everything up, and make sure all the bolts on the mount were tight. You can guess what happened then, can't you!
Anyhow, we appear to be back on air now - but I still have a lingering problem - one which I won't lose too much sleep over for a while.
Everything on the west side of the arc is good - got it so that Asiasat 3 and 5, Palapa D, and Apstar 6 are as good as they can get - raising and lowering the dish by hand results in reduced signal either way.
BUT - soon as I go over to the East side - IS19 - signal is receivable but pretty ordinary. Lifting the dish makes a significant improvement.
So, I've tried gingerly rotating the mount and got a great improvement in IS19 - and just about lost the lot over the other side (yes, I did rescan). So it seems I've got the West side just right, but something is drooping on the East side. Best results are with the elevation back where I originally started - haven't touched the declination, but it's still reading exactly where all the wise words say it should be.
The only thing I now suspect is the pole. I've got a bullseye on top, and the bubble is inside the circle, but definitely leaning to one side - it's a lean which, if corrected, would tend to lift the East side, so it's a possibility - but some other time.
You were right about the signal strengths - I played around with two Strongs - 4922 and 4930, and the difference in readings was quite staggering - from the same flaming brand!
Gunna have a break from it now - and then back onto motor control - controller's out in the store room, so it's either Disecq or USALS.
Leaning towards having a play with USALS first.
Cheers, and thanks.

**mkhannah** · 21-01-14, 06:27 PM

The pole has to be absolutely straight with a motorised dish so any tweaking should probably start with that.

**beer4life** · 21-01-14, 07:01 PM

I question the accuracy of those Bullseyes as against a builders' level.

You can check them in all planes by turning them 180⁰ .

Not so in the end of a pipe.

**weirdo** · 21-01-14, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Thala Dan

Weirdo,
Sorry for the delay responding - spent the last couple of days up a variety of ladders running coax all over the house, and LNB and motor cables to the multiswitch and controller - and the last 24 hours tearing out the last of my remaining hair.
You see, everything was going swimmingly - so I decided to button everything up, and make sure all the bolts on the mount were tight. You can guess what happened then, can't you!
Anyhow, we appear to be back on air now - but I still have a lingering problem - one which I won't lose too much sleep over for a while.
Everything on the west side of the arc is good - got it so that Asiasat 3 and 5, Palapa D, and Apstar 6 are as good as they can get - raising and lowering the dish by hand results in reduced signal either way.
BUT - soon as I go over to the East side - IS19 - signal is receivable but pretty ordinary. Lifting the dish makes a significant improvement.
So, I've tried gingerly rotating the mount and got a great improvement in IS19 - and just about lost the lot over the other side (yes, I did rescan). So it seems I've got the West side just right, but something is drooping on the East side. Best results are with the elevation back where I originally started - haven't touched the declination, but it's still reading exactly where all the wise words say it should be.
The only thing I now suspect is the pole. I've got a bullseye on top, and the bubble is inside the circle, but definitely leaning to one side - it's a lean which, if corrected, would tend to lift the East side, so it's a possibility - but some other time.
You were right about the signal strengths - I played around with two Strongs - 4922 and 4930, and the difference in readings was quite staggering - from the same flaming brand!
Gunna have a break from it now - and then back onto motor control - controller's out in the store room, so it's either Disecq or USALS.
Leaning towards having a play with USALS first.
Cheers, and thanks.

Thanks for reporting back mate
It can be a very time consuming hobby this satellite tv
Like previous replies, your pole has to be perfectly plumb so it's no use adjusting declination and/or elevation until your pole is plumb
Consider using a plum bob, they don't lie
Usals is only good for H-H motors (Ku), not for actuator driven dishes

**apsattv** · 22-01-14, 03:56 PM

I wonder if one of those iphone digital angle finder apps would be any more accurate? might be worth a try?

**Thala Dan** · 22-01-14, 10:44 PM

Well, it’s been and interesting day.
Initially, I decided to stay away from the damn thing – I had the satellites I really wanted, so what’s the problem?
But the lure of the dish is strong.
Decided to check the Bullseye against a Stanley line level and a digital clinometer.
The $5 Bullseye came out with flying colours (first surprise of the day).
Then slapped the clinometer on the mount – sure enough, 0.3 degrees out North-South (north elevated), and 0.5 degrees out East-West (west elevated).
I must say that at this point I was beginning to wonder just how plumb is plumb?
But, I guess if you can see it on a bullseye or a bubble level, then it ain’t plumb.
Not a lot of options in terms of moving the pole or the mount.
What really had me tossed was how had this problem manifested itself when only a couple of days ago (and a bit of fiddling), I had good coverage right across the arc.
In a flash of inspiration (normally referred to as blind desperation), I placed the bullseye on the mount, and drove the dish from west to east.
And guess what?
The bloody bubble moved!
Not much, mind – stayed inside the circle – but move it did. I was pretty sure that it wasn’t supposed to do that.
Not being one to rely on force, I immediately went and got a 10” shifter.
Sure enough, the pole clamps and the mount bolts all responded to a little bit of gentle coaxing.
And a quick check of three satellites confirmed that the little bugger had indeed been drooping.
IS19 – which had been languishing at a SQ of around 50%+, now had an average SQ across 18 transponders of 65%.
And on the other side of the arc, AS5 averaged 76% over 23 transponders, and AS3, 74% over 31 transponders.
And I haven’t done a re-scan since the tightening, so there might be a bit more in each of them yet.
Every single one of the 72 total transponders showed SS of 97% on the SRT4930 – which I guess indicates that it doesn’t go any higher than that.
Anyhow, I shall be brave, and declare “problem solved”.
My thanks to all those who offered suggestions and comments.
Now, having gone to all that trouble, I shall probably never visit the East side of the arc again.

**beer4life** · 22-01-14, 11:31 PM

Inspirational to say the least.

**gordon_s1942** · 23-01-14, 12:10 PM

I bought an elcheapo plastic fence post aligner for about $6 from a hardware store.

it is L shaped with 3 sets of bubbles to suit almost any job requiring a 'Level' vertical or horizontal.
It came with a rubber band that perished the first time it saw the Sun so I use a piece of elastic now and on the inside of it I stuck on some magnetic strips to help hold in on any shape metal posts which it makes it 'Hands free' on either timber or metal and very easy to set the correct alignment.