Alarm system and video intercom

[orica]

We are in process of building a double story house. I called local alarm installer and he told me that it's next to impossible to run cables once house would be ready.

We had a discussion with our builder, and they don't allow any external to do wiring for alarm system and video intercom. But they are happy to do wiring or what they call it Rough In for both systems for a cost.

I would much appreciate your professional advise with picking up right gear. Here are our requirements:

Video Intercom;
1. Flush panel, vandal proof door camera unit with night vision.
2. Two monitors hands free inside, one upstairs and one downstairs.
3. Possible to take photos and keep in memory.
4. Should have builtin door bell.

So far research narrowed down to following units:
1. Aiphone jk series.
2. Dorani 7".

Security alarm system:

1. Can arm downstairs during night time or when required.
2. Remote control to arm/disarm.
3. Must work over NBN as we won't have phone line.
4. Remote arm/disarm with phone incase false alarm.
5. At least 4 PIRs.

So far looking at following:

1. NES 8
2. Bosch
3. Ademco

But not sure which exact model and ad ins would be required to suit our requirements.

I'm totally open to all recommended brands and models.

[TheAlarmGuy]

Intercoms - steer clear of videoman - dorani and aiphone are nice so are Kenwei, but everyone has their own opinion, I personally avoid Intercoms as much as possible as they're always changing and horrible to work with.

Alarms - Bosch 880 Ultima is getting a bit long in the tooth now so look for one of the newer models. the 16+ and 64 are a brilliant panels but it doesn't have an IP module for it to work over NBN so be prepared to see a larger system and the associated cost (144 or 16i), no IP enabled App for remote control although you can get an sms app if you have the gsm/gprs module for the 144 or 16i .

Although not my favourite system to work with have a look at Paradox (PDX-SP6000) with the IP100 module attached, Touch keypad, also has app for remote control and as with most panels can be armed/disarmed with RF Remote. Most guys here will either love or hate this panel though

The Ness D8 is a great little system just steer clear of anything wireless. the Hills reliance VoiceNav/TouchNav is a solid system although other than some fancy new keypads it's still an old NX. Haven't touched an ademco in years so have no opinion

For your Sensors, go with the Bosch Blue-Line Tri-Techs, fantastic sensors with minimal false alarms if set up correctly! Plus they don't look too bad compared to some of the other behemoths going around at the moment.

[orica]

Thanks for your such informative and detailed response.

I'll look into those models you mentioned.

One side question on this, will Bosch blue line tri tech PIRs will work with hills reliance alarm system?

Hills reliance seems like very popular with most of installers, which would make life easier in future if any problem with system.

Hills reliance offers connectivity over NBN?

From following link it sounds like it can send receive commands over apps.

[TheAlarmGuy]

Yes using ComNav on the Reliance/NX will get you IP ready for app control etc. And any technician who cant do a NX should be sent back to training

Any hard wired PIR will work with any Hard-wired capable control panel, it's once you get into the wireless gear that you (mostly) have to stay with specific manufacturers. The Blue-Line Tri-Techs are in my opinion the best consumer grade detector available but that's just my opinion. And steer clear of Blue-Line PIR's, they're pretty basic... at minimum you should be installing quads with tri-techs preferred.

[orica]

It will be all hard wired no wireless stuff.
Builder will provide rough in for hills nx-8 alarm system with 4 PIRs provision.
Installer will have to connect all parts to correct wires. Also requested builder to provide a data point next to main alarm panel for dedicated connectivity.

ComNav will work with NX-8? I was looking at reliance 128 and that looks more expensive compare to nx-8.

Are these correct PIRs?



Does this alarm system only hooks up with komco video intercom or it will work with aiphone and dorani too?

[watchdog]

It will be all hard wired no wireless stuff.
Builder will provide rough in for hills nx-8 alarm system with 4 PIRs provision.
Installer will have to connect all parts to correct wires. Also requested builder to provide a data point next to main alarm panel for dedicated connectivity.

ComNav will work with NX-8? I was looking at reliance 128 and that looks more expensive compare to nx-8.

Orica - a few tips. When I do an install on someone elses pre-wire it is on a do & charge basis simply because of all the potential time consuming stuff ups.
Make sure the cabler uses security cable (NOT telephone 2 pair or cat5 )
Make sure all the cables are labelled at BOTH ends ( numbers or letters will do )
Make sure NO cables are sealed inside walls or other inaccessible places. We don't enjoy cutting multple holes searching for a cable that someone "is sure it's just about there"
Make sure they provide a GPO for the alarm & a GPO for the Intercom. (a double GPO will NOT do )
Make sure they provide (or provide for) a mode 3 socket adjacent to the alarm panel.
Make sure they run Cat6 for the intercom. Most current & all future intercoms will run on Cat5/6
Put a LOT of thought into where the door station for the video intercom is mounted. Direct sunlight on the camera will render it next to useless. Keep in mind the difference between summer & winter sunlight patterns.
After all that is sorted out ask to see the cablers ACMA cabling licence & (whatever state you are in ) Security Licence as they are required for the work.

If you are going to use the local installer you mentioned then it might be better to get him to liase with the builder. That will keep you out of the blame game if something goes wrong.

[orica]

Thanks heaps for the tips watchdog. I'm putting them together in email for our builder.

I requested in start for single gpo for alarm, and single gpo for each monitor screen (intercom). My understand is that each monitor will need power separately.

Do we need gpo for the door station too?

Do you think mode 3 socket will work over NBN? As we won't have regular phone line.

Only requested to provide gpo and data point next to main alarm system unit in linen cupboard.

Builder didn't mention type of cabling they are going to run, but specified exact make and models they were supposed to run.

But I'll double check with them, what type of cable they are going to run for alarm and intercom.

TBH I didn't ask for license from this local installer. Only saw his van with big security signs and noted down his number. But thanks for advise, will ask him to provide his license number.

Our portico is south east facing, and extended about 2m from front door at 2.57m high. I was thinking to install door unit next to front door at 1.6m hight.

[downunderdan]

1) For intercoms I cannot recommend Aiphone highly enough. At the end of the day all intercoms look similar and do the same thing. The difference is that I can still get parts for 20 year old Aiphone systems and expect the same with current models in 5-10 years. Whereas other systems, if the doorstation fails in the harsh Australian climate, you can end up ripping out the whole system rather than replacing a single component.

2) If you are contemplating Aiphone, whilst it *may* run on standard cable or twisted-pair, they do recommend the polyethylene type cable be used.

3) You need to look at IP monitoring, not using the phoneline (or a simulated phoneline via a UNI-V port on your NBN connection). This is better security anyway as it's resilient to the phonelines being cut. I'd recommend you only use a monitoring centre who has been graded by ASIAL. The current list is here:
and I can see a formerly Grade A1 monitoring centre fell off the list earlier this week... We're still there :-)

[orica]

In one of my previous job seen aiphone voice only intercoms in quarries, mine sites, and landfills running non stop for years. I was totally impressed with aiphone build quality and long life. Staff told me that they never has any issues.

TBH I haven't looked into back to base monitoring option. We are pretty lucky in a sense that houses all around us in construction phase.

Now have shortlisted my items:

1. Hills nx-8 with slim external siren and light. Backup battery and power adaptor. Internal screamer.

2. Hills Nav Voice keypad.

3. Hills remote keyfobs kit.

4. Hills NavCom to make it IP enabled.

5. Four Bosch tri tech blue line PIRs.



Intercom:

Aiphone jk series with dual internal monitors.
I'm currently looking at this model:



Please help me with adding missing bits here, if any, thanks .

[TheAlarmGuy]

Are these correct PIRs?

I nearly choked when I saw that price, but then realized it was for 4 so yes they're the right ones!

[TheAlarmGuy]

I requested in start for single gpo for alarm, and single gpo for each monitor screen (intercom). My understand is that each monitor will need power separately.

Do we need gpo for the door station too?

eeeekk, way to go ruining your pretty new house! Get all cabling run back to a central point (like where the alarm panel is) and have the intercom door station and handsets powered from there! They mostly run off ELV plug packs so provided you have allowed enough cores in the cable, which cat6 will no doubt have, you shouldnt have any issues, although as Dan mentioned aiphone like the proper intercom cable so maybe run that to each point along with a cat6 to allow for future system changes etc

[kiwitech]

orica to throw a spanner in your plans I would suggest you go with the Kocom intercom. The reason for this is the ComNav can connect through this, Aiphone wont. Aiphone is a better product but Kocom is not that bad either. It is up to you wouldn't you like to know someone is at the front door when your not home?. You will not get any video which is a big shame but you will get the audio. The other thing is you must use the VoiceNav codepad if you use any other then you wont get audio either. Also to answer your question the door station is powered from the monitor with most makes.

[Old Dog]

Whatever you do the person who installs it must have a cabling licence and a security installers licence. Bring all cabling back to a central point, and I would use NX. Kocom combination I have installed many and all are working fine after a number of years in the field.

[orica]

What's a good model no for Kocom with 2 monitors?

[orica]

I called that security installer today, but he sounds sus. I have doubt he has all licensing required.
He kept changing topic when I mentioned license, lol.

[watchdog]

I know the slimline sirens may look better but they have reliability issues due to having unprotected electronics & very poor weather protection. I won't use them.

[downunderdan]

I know the slimline sirens may look better but they have reliability issues due to having unprotected electronics & very poor weather protection. I won't use them.

They are shithouse.

[bet2win]

Plus they not very loud and that lovely white casing will turn yellow and brittle very quickly in the australian sun.

[orica]

Point taken, will go with old bucket style big siren.

Builder has confirmed today that rough in comes with single power point, also individual single power points with intercom monitors.

It seems like I'll need to prepare a custom parts list and order that instead of standard alarm packages available from online security stores.

Most of stores don't package hills alarms with Bosch PIRs.also selling them with slimline sirens only.

[downunderdan]

I have *never* seen an intercom with a powerpoint underneath it. There is simply no need for it and it would look atrocious.

Either the builder is getting bad advice, perhaps from a sparky mate, or just has no idea.

On the other hand, I can see from his point of view the potential problem with a homeowner going and doing their own thing. What happens when things go wrong and the finger-pointing starts?