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Thread: Setting up large motorised dish

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    Unhappy Setting up large motorised dish

    Hi,

    just installed a 2.3 m c-band motorised dish and am trying to get the arc.

    I have surfed for information about the right angles and Dish pointer is quite good but does not seem to have the info I'm after. That is, when I point the dish true north, what elevation and declination angles should I set? I'm in Holt, Canberra and I think it is around 5.7 Declination and 50 Elevation? Also, I'm confused as to which way the lnb skew should point. So, pointing north again, facing the dish, should the 0 be pointing right or left horizontal?

    I played around yesterday with a sat meter and managed to get Asiasat3S and Chinasat6B to about 70% quality, but nothing imbetween even though the meter keeps telling me there are satellites there but the reciever isn't picking them up. So I think I'm kinda on the right arc...

    I'm trying to get Asiasat5 which will be my lowest sat and Chinasat6B being the highest - others would be a bonus, but I'm not sure I want my actuator (24 inch) straining itself all the way over to the other side!?

    Anyway, any help would be appreciated. thanks.
    Last edited by Mattsat; 07-03-14 at 02:41 PM.



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    Wink C-Band Dish Tutorial,







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    mattsat:
    Also, I'm confused as to which way the lnb should point.
    You need to explain that a bit please.
    The LNB itself (feed horn) should be facing the centre of the dish to collect the reflected signal from the dish surface.
    If you mean the 'skew' which is the rotation of the LNB, then I would think like a Ku LNB, the '0' mark goes to the TOP of the dish then you rotate the LNB left or right to get the best result from the received Satellite.
    Is it a dual or single polarity LNB as I think single polarity are still available in 'C' band.
    If you have a standard Mesh dish with the LNB mounted on a tripod arrangement, it should also have an adjustment to be raised up or down slightly to fine tune the 'Focal Point' of the dish as there are slight variations in the dish surface

    *******************************
    B4life, an excellent tutorial on installing a dish BUT I couldnt find anything there about actually mounting the LNB and setting it up. I am wondering if those instructions should be included with the specific LNB when you buy it ??
    Last edited by gordon_s1942; 07-03-14 at 01:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    mattsat:
    You need to explain that a bit please.
    The LNB itself (feed horn) should be facing the centre of the dish to collect the reflected signal from the dish surface.
    If you mean the 'skew' which is the rotation of the LNB, then I would think like a Ku LNB, the '0' mark goes to the TOP of the dish then you rotate the LNB left or right to get the best result from the received Satellite.
    Is it a dual or single polarity LNB as I think single polarity are still available in 'C' band.
    If you have a standard Mesh dish with the LNB mounted on a tripod arrangement, it should also have an adjustment to be raised up or down slightly to fine tune the 'Focal Point' of the dish as there are slight variations in the dish surface

    *******************************
    B4life, an excellent tutorial on installing a dish BUT I couldnt find anything there about actually mounting the LNB and setting it up. I am wondering if those instructions should be included with the specific LNB when you buy it ??
    Sorry, yes I mean skew. I have a polar mount c-band mesh dish. So, if I'm looking at the dish, does the 0 mark on the back of the LNB sit horizontal to the right, when facing true north? I've already set the focal length according to the lnb make.

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    Beer 4 life sounds good to me. Had a quick look at the tutorial - practically the same as my set up except the declination bolt is on the topside of the dish - looks good. I think I need to up the angle when pointing north a bit more. cheers.

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    I have never set up a C band but I cant see any difference to a Ku dish.
    After assembly, the LNB is in the holder with the '0' on top no matter where the dish is facing at this point even if its sitting on the ground.
    The 'Top' of the Ku LNB holder is usually clearly marked on the holding saddle and some are even graduated on both sides of the 'O' or centre line.
    You cant do this with a C band but then I lift the dish onto the mount and try to line it up with the marks I have made for North with the elevation marking near 50 degrees as my interest is C1/D3.
    I then rotate the dish to around 8 degrees to my RIGHT while I am facing NORTH.(standing behind the dish)
    This next step depends on how easy it is to adjust the LNB as I then turn it ANTICLOCK wise while I am FACING the dish so the Co-ax is now opposite where 4pm would be if the dish was a clock face.
    I am north of you near Lithgow so apart from the azimuth, my elevations would be slightly higher than yours as I am closer to the equator and higher in elevation than you.

    From here on in its signal meter with stb attached and slow adjustment to both the azimuth and elevation to find the satellite.
    Under normal installation of a C band dish this will never happen but with Ku, one must remember NOT to stand in between the dish and the Satellite when trying to tune it in as yer big arse makes an effective signal blocker.
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    Hi gordon,

    I might try and turn the lnb 0 to the top and see what happens - it makes sense actually, as the dish moves west (for example) and rolls, it will go negative polarity degrees for the requied satellites... or maybe I've got it wrong.. Impossible to put my behind in front of the dish as I'll fall off the house.

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    Mattsat,

    Have just been through the same drama - not as hard as it sounds.

    First, your latitude at Holt is 35.22 deg - you must set the elevation of your mount to this figure.
    Don't confuse the elevation angle of the satellites with the angle you are setting on your mount.
    Set your mount to 35 degrees elevation whilst pointing as close to true north as you can get.
    Next, your declination should be around 4.98 deg - let's say 5 just for fun.
    Before any of this - it is very important (critical, even) that your pole is absolutely plumb - if your pole is not plumb then everything else is of no consequence.
    It's highly unlikely you'll get any instructions with your LNB.
    Mount the LNB in its holder and adjust it so that the graduations on the side coincide with the FD of your dish.
    This would normally be about 39 on the LNB for a 2.3m dish.
    Mount the LNB perfectly vertical - in other words with the "0" at the top - you may need to tweak this a little later on, but not much from my experience.
    i would not worry too much about your 24" actuator handling the easterly movement - I have a 24" and it manages IS19 easily.
    But it's imperative that the hardware limits are set on the actuator, and preferably you should set software limits in your controller as well.
    On the west side of north you've got Asiasat 5 and 3, Palapa D, Chinasat 6B, and Apstar 6. On the east side, the only one of interest (to me) is Intelsat 19.
    Once you're on the arc, these sats will all romp in (assuming you have line-of-sight).
    I am located in NE Vic, not far south of you, at around 37 deg South, in fairly lumpy country, but get all of the above no worries.
    Let us know how you go.

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    Mattsat,

    P.S to the above,

    If you don't already have it, get a free program off the 'net called Gorbtrak.

    It is a very useful little program, and particularly so for your current endeavours, as it provides Azimuth and Clarke Belt plots that help you visualise what it is you're trying to achieve.

    Cheers

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    This can be a bit hard to follow at first but the Clarke Belt is NOT a circle but an arc and the polar mount is designed to allow the Dish to follow that arc while keeping the LNB at the correct skew as it does.
    The rotator used on a Ku dish has an 'appendage' you attach the dish to and it does the same job.
    If you didnt have either in use, as you went from Horizon to Horizon, you would have to manually adjust the elevation and the skew of the LNB every few degrees to track the Clarke belt which would be quite time consuming to say the least.
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    Smile Excellent...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    Mattsat,


    First, your latitude at Holt is 35.22 deg - you must set the elevation of your mount to this figure.
    Set your mount to 35 degrees elevation whilst pointing as close to true north as you can get.
    Next, your declination should be around 4.98 deg - let's say 5 just for fun.
    Before any of this - it is very important (critical, even) that your pole is absolutely plumb - if your pole is not plumb then everything else is of no consequence.
    It's highly unlikely you'll get any instructions with your LNB.
    Mount the LNB in its holder and adjust it so that the graduations on the side coincide with the FD of your dish.
    This would normally be about 39 on the LNB for a 2.3m dish.
    Mount the LNB perfectly vertical - in other words with the "0" at the top - you may need to tweak this a little later on, but not much from my experience.
    i would not worry too much about your 24" actuator handling the easterly movement - I have a 24" and it manages IS19 easily.
    But it's imperative that the hardware limits are set on the actuator, and preferably you should set software limits in your controller as well.
    On the west side of north you've got Asiasat 5 and 3, Palapa D, Chinasat 6B, and Apstar 6. On the east side, the only one of interest (to me) is Intelsat 19.
    Once you're on the arc, these sats will all romp in (assuming you have line-of-sight).
    I am located in NE Vic, not far south of you, at around 37 deg South, in fairly lumpy country, but get all of the above no worries.
    Let us know how you go.
    Great, exactly what I need. I set the FD for 39 but you're right, no instructions with the lnb. I'll try those settings, and I've had the LNB skew 0 to the right so I'll point it to the top - that would explain why I was only getting certain sats and not others in-between. I think I am getting close to the correct arc. I tried to get the pole as plumb as possible by attaching a spirit level to the pole. I have a feeling however the top of the pole where it was cut, is not level so the dish isn't perfect but close. I'll try and make sure. I'll let you know. thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsat View Post
    ...I set the FD for 39 but you're right, no instructions with the lnb. I'll try those settings...
    ...and I've had the LNB skew 0 to the right so I'll point it to the top...
    If you already have reception from one satellite, make sure that you are receiving channels on the correct polarity (as per or websites).

    If you are, (in the absence of the appropriate satellite meter/spectrum analyser), simply tune to a weak signal and then optimise the LNB skew for maximum signal strength.

    If you are receiving on the wrong polarity, your LNB needs to be rotated through ninety degrees so that the correct LNB probe is in use, then proceed as I have described above.

    In my experience, (hundreds of C-band installations), the antennae on most satellites are set up correctly for linear polarisation, (i.e. horizontal and vertically polarised transmission), consistent with their longitudinal position. This being the case, once the LNB skew is set correctly for one satellite, it will also be correct for other satellites also.

    ... - that would explain why I was only getting certain sats and not others in-between. I think I am getting close to the correct arc.
    Perhaps....but the most common cause is incorrect arc "shape" a result of incorrect/inadequate adjustment of elevation, declination and/or azimuth.

    I tried to get the pole as plumb as possible by attaching a spirit level to the pole.
    You can also use an inclinometer or improvise with a plumb-bob. If the post is not perpendicular, it is exceedingly if not impossible to adjust the dish polar mount for accurate tracking. I hope that the post is also securely mounted (to wall if wall mounted) or concreted into the ground (if installed in yard) as it will tend to move if not.

    I have a feeling however the top of the pole where it was cut, is not level so the dish isn't perfect but close. I'll try and make sure. I'll let you know. thanks.
    It's good if the cut is a right angle, but not all are. In any case, once the polar mount clamp is tightened, all should be well.

    An inclinometer makes setting the various angles required a fairly straightforward process, but some fine adjustment might also be required..

    One can be improvised thus...



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    I cannot confirm this, as I no longer use C Band, but there are reports that some of the feeds previously seen on this sat are no longer viewable, even in WA, due to a drop in power by the broadcaster...they likely are not happy that their signal can be compromised.

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    Mattsat,

    Regards the LNB skew – most literature suggests that you mount the LNB exactly as you had it – with the zero on the horizontal to the right of vertical.
    The reason I suggested you start at the vertical position is because this is what ended up working for me. I checked this morning, and my LNB is sitting between 1 and 2 o’clock, looking from the front of the dish. So, it’s a lot closer to the vertical, than to the horizontal. I found very slight variation in signal strength moving it either side of this position.
    I checked a map, and I’m <300km southwest of you, so I’m guessing that your settings will end up something similar.

    If you’re still getting Asiasat 3 and Chinasat 6B it might be worth checking Palapa D. It’s not far down the arc from Chinasat.
    Chinasat 6B is approximately 311 azimuth, 36 elevation from Canberra. Palapa D is approximately 308 azimuth, 34 elevation.
    So you only have to drop your dish very slightly to the west and you should see it – look for 4080 H, SR 28124 – it carries NHK and Bloomberg, and is a good solid signal.
    Similarly, Asiasat 5 is not far down from Asiasat 3 – 301/28 for AS3, 297/25 for AS5 (from Canberra). Look for 4000 H, SR 28124 for France 24, another good signal.

    ….even though the meter keeps telling me there are satellites there but the reciever isn't picking them up.
    There may be reasons unrelated to your dish as to why this is happening.

    What satellite meter and receiver are you using?

    As Tristen has suggested, a clinometer is a big help in this job.
    I use one similar to this one on eBay – believe me, they make this C-band dish caper a whole lot easier.



    The whole guts of what you’re trying to achieve is tied up in just a few things:

    1. Pole absolutely plumb – and the mount as well
    2. Dish elevation correct (more correctly called the Latitude Angle)
    3. Dish declination correct.
    4. Dish pointing true north at peak elevation

    Get those right, and the rest pretty much falls into place.

    Good luck – and don’t fall off the roof.

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    Bought a $9 inclinometer from Masters instead of the cardboard with angles pasted on and washers on the end of a thread which was easier to use. Was confused with the angles websites were telling me, so I played around and tried pointing at one strong sat and finally worked out the best angles. Made sure lnb 0 was towards right at North, then got Asiasat 3s and Chinasat 6B coming in strong. Moved it slightly down from 3S to get Asiasat 5 and was getting a signal but my receiver wasn't registering quality.

    So I did a search for channels and they started poping up. I have the main Russian ones I want although RTR Planeta is not strong enough. The picture quality is more than decent for viewing NTV etc...
    There is a big gum tree 2 houses down where the dish is pointing to Asiasat 5 so I suspect this is interferring with the signal, but it works well enough.
    So I've locked in 3 sats and if I can get Thaicom it will be a bonus.

    I have NHK on 3S which is fine, but I was really after the Japanese version which turns out is only with pay Ku band or on Telstar 18 over Asia only. Does anyone know where to get a Irdeto card with NHK Premium on it - wink wink...

    Also, is it possible to strap a ku-band lnb to the ring and then put both cables through a splitter in reverse to the receiver? There are some more channels on Asiasat 4 in KU band I'm interested in.

    Pretty happy when it all finally worked!

    Thanks for all the replies.
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    For Ku, you are much better off with a dedicated solid dish as the mesh dishes do not perform anywhere near as well.

    You can use a combination C//Ku LNB on the mesh dish, but it's a compromise, so your C-band signals will not be as good as with a dedicated C-band LNB.

    No, you can't combine Ku and C-band signals with a splitter in reverse.

    To combine them on a single cable, you need to install a multiswitch.

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    Glad to hear it’s working out.

    There are NHK channels on Intelsat 8 – 4060 H – SR 26590

    • NHK World (SD) – English

    • NHK World (SD) - Japanese

    • NHK World (MPEG4/HD) – English

    • NHK World (MPEG4/HD) – Japanese

    • NHK Premium

    The NHK World channels scan in separately as English and Japanese channels (although I’m currently watching an English news service on the HD channel that is supposed to be Japanese).

    The “Premium” channel is encrypted with PowerVu.

    RTR Planeta coming in here SS - 97%, SQ – 82%.

    There’s a good movie on there at the moment – pity I can’t understand a damn word of it

    Have you tried lifting and depressing the edge of your dish to see if your elevation is OK at that lower end of the arc?

    Lots of interesting stuff out there, mate…..enjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    Glad to hear it’s working out.

    There are NHK channels on Intelsat 8 – 4060 H – SR 26590

    • NHK World (SD) – English

    • NHK World (SD) - Japanese

    • NHK World (MPEG4/HD) – English

    • NHK World (MPEG4/HD) – Japanese

    • NHK Premium

    The NHK World channels scan in separately as English and Japanese channels (although I’m currently watching an English news service on the HD channel that is supposed to be Japanese).
    I looked at lingsat and it lists nothing on that satellite? I'm starting to find Lingsat is not entirely accurate... I'm definately going to try and get it if that's the case. The NHKs (SD) are on C-band aren't they?


    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    The “Premium” channel is encrypted with PowerVu.
    Yeah, I know, but I just thought someone might know someone who knows someone... But if I can get Japanese NHK on IS8 that will be great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post

    RTR Planeta coming in here SS - 97%, SQ – 82%.

    There’s a good movie on there at the moment – pity I can’t understand a damn word of it

    Have you tried lifting and depressing the edge of your dish to see if your elevation is OK at that lower end of the arc?

    Lots of interesting stuff out there, mate…..enjoy.
    Tried moving the dish up and down before to no avail. Next move is to check the skew while pointing at Asiasat 5 which hopefully will help.
    I can't understand RTR either but members of my family do. Off to find some more sats. cheers.


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    Hang on, Thala are you using a 3 m dish? Satbeams is telling me I need at lease a 2.9m dish to get Intelsat 19 (which I know see has NHK E & J) from Canberra! I'll try with my 2.3m anyway... no obsticles over that end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsat View Post
    I looked at lingsat and it lists nothing on that satellite? I'm starting to find Lingsat is not entirely accurate...



    Happens all the time
    You have to remember it's updated by volunteers and sometimes that takes time

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