Garmin 2797 / 2798 / Dezl 760 differences?

[Valkyrie]

Having recently upgraded vehicles to one with very limited rear vision, I decided to look into upgrading my old nuvi to something that could be hooked up to a reversing camera.
I came across the Nuvi 2798LMT bundled in the US with a BC20 camera.
Here in Australia we only have the Nuvi 2797LMT (which can't be connected to a camera), or the much more expensive Dezl 760 which is meant for trucks and has features I don't need.

I'm keen on the 7" screen as my eyesight isn't what it used to be up close.

I saw a post recently about "unlocking" features on certain Garmin units...

So my options are
1: buy the US model 2798 and replace the maps. No huge task, but I'm not sure if there are differences in the traffic receivers or other "gotchas" waiting. Warranty is of course an issue, but not a deal breaker.

2: buy a 2797 and try to upgrade the firmware to 2798. They look identical. If I can do this then I can buy the camera and the mount from a Dezl 760 and not be that far behind the cost of the 2798 bundle.

Not sure if any firmware/software upgrade would invalidate the lifetime map/traffic upgrades.



I tried contacting Garmin to see if the 2798 would be released here any time soon, but you get a call centre with people who have no idea about unscripted questions >:-/

Any input appreciated....


Cheers
Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Surething]

(a) The US models come with Lifetime Map updates for NA. You can add AUNZ or any other maps of course one way or another , but you cannot buy an LM subscription for here or any other part of the world, Garmin will only let you buy 'one-off' single version maps for other than it's OEM area which are supplied without the additional files such as ASR, JCV etc. You can of course get them from helpful sites like this.

(b) 2798/2797 are identical as to the board and seem to share the same firmware and appear identical externally. I'll look into the fw a little closer and confirm that part, but I do think it's actually academic. The question is really whether there is additional wireless hardware in the 2798 for the BC 20 reversing camera support which isn't in the 2797. I suspect that's the case because the 2797 isn't in the list of compatible units for the BC 20, sorry. Be the same then with converting it to dezl 760, unless the wireless module is actually in the mount, perhaps?

(c) The US devices will be supplied with either GTM 35 or 36 TMC Traffic Receiver loaded with NA subscription. You can purchase [or add] an AU Suna sub, to make traffic work here.

(d) The LM maps attach to the units UID (Unit Identification number) and not it's model number [the firmware is downloaded according to the model number though]. No change to the model is going to change the LM sub validity under Garmin's current policies.

(d) Warranty isn't really an issue, Garmin should honour that Worldwide.


The call centre droids aren't programmed to answer those kind of questions and you probably would need to talk to someone high up to get an answer on 2798 release here.

EDIT: PS. I forgot to say that I'll try to find about the hardware differences (if any) between nuvi 2797, 2798, dezl 760 and RV 760. As far as I know the PCB P/Ns are the same for all but there may be other differences such as possible lack of the wireless receiver in 2797 and if the module is in the mount for the other 3 rather than on board. Maybe you could also fish around for that or if someone knows they might be good enough to post here to tell us.

[Valkyrie]

My understanding is that the BC20 has a wireless receiver which plugs into an AV socket in the mount of the 2798 and Dezl 760.
However there must be software or firmware differences for calibrating the camera etc


Edit.
This video shows that the receiver comes with the camera and replaces the mount from the GPS


The mount I referred to earlier was this one


I thought the camera plugged into the socket on the side



Cheers
Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Surething]

It seems that there's a replacement mount with an a/v socket supplied in the box with the BC 20 camera so you wouldn't need to buy an additional mount.

There are 2 versions of RV 760, one with and one without BC 20, the one without has BC 20 as a listed optional accessory. There is one version of dezl 760 and BC 20 is a listed optional accessory. The nuvi 2798 has BC 20 included. The nuvi 2797 doesn't have BC 20 as a listed option and nor does it appear in the compatible units list of BC 20.

My concern is that there is a hardware difference between 2797 and the others, all of which either have the camera included and/or are listed as compatible with it. Otherwise the hardware is compatible for model conversion as all the units have the same PCB P/N. What needs to be established before going any further is the 2797's camera capability. The conversion itself is not need per se, both 2797 & 2798 run the exact same firmware. A 2798 can convert to dezl/RV 760 with reversing camera, but I'm not at all sure that a 2797 can convert to a 760 to which you can then just add a camera.

Some official links:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-road/rv/rv-760lmt-with-wireless-backup-camera/prod154163.html#inTheBoxTab

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-road/rv/rv-760lmt/prod135455.html#accessoriesTab

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-road/trucking/dezl-760lmt/prod112211.html#accessoriesTab

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-road/automotive/2013-line/nuvi-2798lmt-with-backup-camera/prod150565.html#inTheBoxTab

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/on-the-road/automotive/2013-line/nuvi-2797lmt/prod112203.html#accessoriesTab

If you expand the 'other' listing in the accessories tab, the BC 20 is an optional accessory. But in the accessory tab for 2797 there isn't an 'other' listing. And my concern is magnified because of it being left out of the compatible devices list for BC 20:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod138554.html#productTab

I'd hate for you to buy an AU 2797 and then find that the camera doesn't work with it [but not as much as you'd hate it ].

[Valkyrie]

I'm wondering if the 2798, 760 etc have a different pin configuration on the head unit .?
Ie. extra pins in the unit for AV.
That would explain why it isn't listed as an accessory despite all the other similarities.

Oh well. Looks like I'll have to re-evaluate.


Cheers
Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Surething]

Differing pinouts could explain it and comparing the connections of 2797 and 760 would confirm or debunk that theory easily, but I do suspect that Garmin may be playing it smart. The 'standard' [non a/v socket] mounts for the nuvi 2797 and unit-only dezl 760 [the only two versions in this unit family not supplied with the BC 20 in the box] seem to be the same one. To make the dezl 760 work with the BC 20 you simply change the standard mount to the a/v capable mount supplied with the BC 20. Logically, it would seem that the 2797 would be the same, and maybe it is, but Garmin don't wish to publicise that for some reason. It wouldn't be the first time they and others have disguised product capabilities for some reason. In this case maybe to discourage ppl from buying the cheaper 2797 and coupling it with the BC 20 rather than buying the more expensive dezl 760. Even more reason to do that when they know ppl are buying 2797s to convert them to dezl anyway. Disinformation by omission is rife when it suits marketing purposes.

Here's some more info that I've found digging around, some of which is a little confusing to me:

The BC 20 is mentioned everywhere to be 'wireless', but is also supplied with an a/v cable which I assume is to be used if the wireless signal isn't reliable. These' also a 50 foot [15m] extension cable option available for longer vehicles. Now to me 'wireless' in isolation means 2.4G/5G/DECT including the much older 900MHz and 1200MHz bands type of technology as used for cordless phones and wi-fi devices. If you're talking the similar radio technology but much [usually] less powerful Bluetooth it's usually named as such i.e. 'Bluetooth Wireless', or simply 'Bluetooth' or in common abbreviation "BT'. However, I've come across a reference to the BC 20 as a Bluetooth device in a Q & A from GPSCity [who's info is usually reliable]:

http://www.gpscity.com/questions?qid=36312

'Roxie' from there says, inter alia: "4. The options for connecting the camera to the GPS are either hardwire or Bluetooth pairing, up to 45 feet.". I think some types of BT configurations have no problem with that range, and it some cases range can be around or even exceed 100m/330ft.

They also regard the 2797 as not BC 20-capable, although 'Tom' may simply be relying on the same info I've gleaned from Garmin to give this answer:

http://www.gpscity.com/questions?qid=40872

If 'Roxie' is to be trusted, a reasonable deduction is that the camera could be paired with any BT capable device with is also capable of displaying video, e.g. a nuvi 2797, and in that case there should be no need to have the a/v socket mount which is perhaps simply a means to feed the a/v to the unit if the BT signal is unreliable BUT it would also mean that the camera cannot be powered constantly when the vehicle is keyed on, it must be connected to the reversing lights, power up on selecting reverse and establish a BT connection each time with the unit or otherwise the unit's screen would constantly show the back-up signal overriding the navigation display. That method [even if it would work] sounds quite clunky and may take several seconds or more even if pairing is set to auto connect each time. It would also mean of course that a phone cannot be simultaneously paired with the unit as well.

I don't claim to be an expert is these fields at all, so you need to satisfy yourself otherwise. You could contact Garmin if you haven't completely thrown in the towel yet and ask them what wireless communication method is actually used by the BC 20. i.e. Is it BT or a Wi-Fi-type wireless. That'll be like trying to drawn blood from a stone I'd think, so good luck with that.

A sneaky way would be to find a retailer with a 'no questions asked money back policy', buy a 2797 and BC 20 and do some experimenting yourself. Justify it to yourself mentally and blame Garmin for turning you into a sneak if [i.e. when] you can't get precise answers from them.

Another interesting little gem of confusion is that there are two nuvi 2798 models. The US/AU 2797 and the US 2798 share HWID 1517 and use the same firmware. But there's also a European model 3798 which is just a 2797 packaged with a digital HD traffic receiver instead of the FM receiver included with the EU 2797. The EU 2798 doesn't come with BC 20 or have it listed as an accessory either, the 8 substituted for the 7 simply indicating it comes with the HD traffic model. And now I've found a 2798 specific firmware for HWID 1884 of which I've not been aware of before. I assume its for the EU 2798. All the firmwares share PCB P/Ns so if that's EU specific fw, even the EU 2798 is cross flashable to the US nuvi fw, as well as the already known possibilities to convert either of *7 or *8 nuvi>dezl>RV and vice versa. Interesting what you find out by accident sometimes.

[Surething]

Too late to do an edit to the post above, option has expired so sorry for the consecutive posts Mods/Admin, merge them if you like with the below as a PS to the main post and this line removed.

I've found a reference to the wireless system used with the BC 20, and it's authoritatively saying it's wireless 2.4G. So much for Trixie or Roxie or wotever her ditsy name was. The mount is definitely the receiver for both wireless and hardwire signals. So unless the pin-out is different on dezl/RV 760 and nuvi 2797 it should be able to use the BC 20 receiver mount to get the camera video:

Wireless System: The transmitter and receiver operate on the 2.4 GHz ISM radio band. The transmitter sends the camera's video signal to the navigator's receiver mount up to 45 feet away. The transmitter mounts on the exterior of your RV or rig, about 3' from the camera. The receiver is integrated into the device mount, and replaces the mount that comes with the RV 760LMT or dēzl 760LMT.

Link to Crutchfiled page details tab:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1l5jH3oviGN/p_150BC20/Garmin-BC-20-Wireless-Back-up-Camera.html#details-tab

[Valkyrie]

Thanks surething!

I might find a dealer with a 760 in stock and check the pin outs compared to the 2797






Cheers
Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Surething]

If you have the right kit with you to test each contact in turn that would be great. But if they have both a 2797 and BC 20 in stock for demo, and you've got a way to power up the camera, it would be the ultimate test to just try the nuvi in the replacement mount.

If the pinouts are the same and the 2797 doesn't work in the mount it may simply mean that the function is disabled in 2797 firmware, and can be enabled by conversion to dezl 760 or RV 760.

[DimiS]

Differing pinouts could explain it and comparing the connections of 2797 and 760 would confirm or debunk that theory easily, but I do suspect that Garmin may be playing it smart. The 'standard' [non a/v socket] mounts for the nuvi 2797 and unit-only dezl 760 [the only two versions in this unit family not supplied with the BC 20 in the box] seem to be the same one. To make the dezl 760 work with the BC 20 you simply change the standard mount to the a/v capable mount supplied with the BC 20. Logically, it would seem that the 2797 would be the same, and maybe it is, but Garmin don't wish to publicise that for some reason. It wouldn't be the first time they and others have disguised product capabilities for some reason. In this case maybe to discourage ppl from buying the cheaper 2797 and coupling it with the BC 20 rather than buying the more expensive dezl 760. Even more reason to do that when they know ppl are buying 2797s to convert them to dezl anyway. Disinformation by omission is rife when it suits marketing purposes.

Here's some more info that I've found digging around, some of which is a little confusing to me:

The BC 20 is mentioned everywhere to be 'wireless', but is also supplied with an a/v cable which I assume is to be used if the wireless signal isn't reliable. These' also a 50 foot [15m] extension cable option available for longer vehicles. Now to me 'wireless' in isolation means 2.4G/5G/DECT including the much older 900MHz and 1200MHz bands type of technology as used for cordless phones and wi-fi devices. If you're talking the similar radio technology but much [usually] less powerful Bluetooth it's usually named as such i.e. 'Bluetooth Wireless', or simply 'Bluetooth' or in common abbreviation "BT'. However, I've come across a reference to the BC 20 as a Bluetooth device in a Q & A from GPSCity [who's info is usually reliable]:

http://www.gpscity.com/questions?qid=36312

'Roxie' from there says, inter alia: "4. The options for connecting the camera to the GPS are either hardwire or Bluetooth pairing, up to 45 feet.". I think some types of BT configurations have no problem with that range, and it some cases range can be around or even exceed 100m/330ft.

They also regard the 2797 as not BC 20-capable, although 'Tom' may simply be relying on the same info I've gleaned from Garmin to give this answer:

http://www.gpscity.com/questions?qid=40872

If 'Roxie' is to be trusted, a reasonable deduction is that the camera could be paired with any BT capable device with is also capable of displaying video, e.g. a nuvi 2797, and in that case there should be no need to have the a/v socket mount which is perhaps simply a means to feed the a/v to the unit if the BT signal is unreliable BUT it would also mean that the camera cannot be powered constantly when the vehicle is keyed on, it must be connected to the reversing lights, power up on selecting reverse and establish a BT connection each time with the unit or otherwise the unit's screen would constantly show the back-up signal overriding the navigation display. That method [even if it would work] sounds quite clunky and may take several seconds or more even if pairing is set to auto connect each time. It would also mean of course that a phone cannot be simultaneously paired with the unit as well.

I don't claim to be an expert is these fields at all, so you need to satisfy yourself otherwise. You could contact Garmin if you haven't completely thrown in the towel yet and ask them what wireless communication method is actually used by the BC 20. i.e. Is it BT or a Wi-Fi-type wireless. That'll be like trying to drawn blood from a stone I'd think, so good luck with that.

A sneaky way would be to find a retailer with a 'no questions asked money back policy', buy a 2797 and BC 20 and do some experimenting yourself. Justify it to yourself mentally and blame Garmin for turning you into a sneak if [i.e. when] you can't get precise answers from them.

Another interesting little gem of confusion is that there are two nuvi 2798 models. The US/AU 2797 and the US 2798 share HWID 1517 and use the same firmware. But there's also a European model 3798 which is just a 2797 packaged with a digital HD traffic receiver instead of the FM receiver included with the EU 2797. The EU 2798 doesn't come with BC 20 or have it listed as an accessory either, the 8 substituted for the 7 simply indicating it comes with the HD traffic model. And now I've found a 2798 specific firmware for HWID 1884 of which I've not been aware of before. I assume its for the EU 2798. All the firmwares share PCB P/Ns so if that's EU specific fw, even the EU 2798 is cross flashable to the US nuvi fw, as well as the already known possibilities to convert either of *7 or *8 nuvi>dezl>RV and vice versa. Interesting what you find out by accident sometimes.

Very interesting discussion. I'm in Europe (Greece) and I just bought the 2798 and separately the bc20 camera. It seems that they are not compatible.
No communication at all between the two units. So it makes perfectly sense what you write about the different 2798versions. I expect that the 2797 will not communicate with the BC20 as well.
The question is, can I install the US 2798 firmware to my unit and how.
I'd greatly appreciate an answer since in the current situation the camera is of no use.

[Surething]

G'day DimiS,
Welcome to Austech. I must apologise to you for being so late in responding. It's because i haven't been logging in very much lately and for some reason i didn't notice your post until now. If your EU 2798 has the same PCB P/N as the US 2797/8 then it may be possible to cross-flash to US firmware. If it's different then it's impossible. The HWID being the same is an indication of complete compatibility for cross-flashing, but if different HWID while having same PCB then it's a good chance.

Would you kindly to check both please. If you press the battery symbol in the top RH corner of the main screen for ~6 seconds, a hidden menu appears. Press next until you see a screen with [probably] 'Version Information' on the top banner and 'Start Test' at the base. I don't have a 2797 or 2798 of either US or EU ilk, but the procedure is basically the same for all modern automotive garmins. You may have to press 'Next' only once or many times to find the right screen. On there you'll see the PCB P/N at the top left. Then press Start Test>More and in the top right you'll see Boot BLK, X-Loader and System in lines 1, 2 and 3. The next entry [for a US unit] would be B1517-00 and an EU is maybe B1884-00.

Once i have your unit's PCB P/N and HWID numbers i can advise you further. But if the BC20 'lockout' is because of differing pin-outs on the unit's contacts to the mount then it'll require a hardware mod instead or a fw one, or maybe even both to use the BC20.