Channel 9 & 9A ...... & Channel 5 & 5A

[OSIRUS]

I notice on the digital Re-stack (Re-Tune) chart that the frequency for Channel 9 & Channel 9A are still used

Also years ago there was a Channel 5 & Channel 5A

Can anyone shed some light why Channel 9A (frequency) exists, & channel 5A used to be used ? ...... Please ..... ?

Part of the Digital Re-Tune chart




( & BTW, does anyone know why nothing appears to be used between channel 12 & channel 28 ....... is it just the end of VHF Frequency & the start of UHF Frequency ?)

cheers

[mtv]

Channel 9A is used for DAB+ (Digital Broadcast radio)

There's plenty of spectrum used between TV VHF Ch 12 and 28 but as those frequencies are not used as TV broadcast frequencies in Australia, they aren't shown in the TV frequencies list

[OSIRUS]

Thanks mtv ...... back in the analogue TV days why was there a channel 9A .....5A ?

[Antennaman]

Channel 5A was introduced a long time ago in Australia, it now clashes with satellite downlink frequencies, & will no longer be used.

SBS Hobart still uses channel 9A, & will until sometime in October when it will change to channel 6.

Once upon a time, Australia was going to have FM transmissions in the UHF band, thankfully that didn't happen, although channels 3/4/5 being used in rural areas limited the number of FM stations that could be set up, until channels 3/4/5 were moved to UHF assignments, or shut down.

[Antennaman]

back in the analogue TV days why was there a channel 9A .....5A ?

Because we could?

I think in the 1950's there may not have been the coordination of frequency assignments that occurs now, so regulators could make ad hoc decisions regarding channels & their numbering.

[mtv]

Yep... particularly between Australia & NZ there was no coordination of TV channel frequency assignments, especially on the low band.

There was also differences between the Australian channel plan and European channel plans, remembering back when these channels came into operation in Australia, there were no electronic tuners, just rotary 'biscuit' type tuners that had fixed frequencies.

[gordon_s1942]

Actually I can remember reading a statement made by the Communications Minister or some such back then that Australia 'would 'Never have FM radio because our 'market' was too small to support it' and in the early 1950's, that was probably correct and maybe the AM Radio station owners didnt want it either.
I cannot remember any Sydney metropolitan AM station that ran 24 hours prior to 1960.
The first FM station for Sydney was set up by a group of enthusiasts as an experimental 'community station' transmitting from I think around the Ryde/West Ryde area (AWA factory?)in the early 1970's and played mostly classical (out of copyright) or test tones to set up your system.
Even though it was mostly crap dead droning classical, as I came over the top of Kurrajong Heights I could pick the signal up and see the FM light glowing away.
The quality of the audio in FM was just so different to what we were used to with AM even the experimental station had a reasonable audience with their classical only lineup so when MMM began full time broadcasting with current content, FM took off like a rocket.
As a consequence to the 'Never have FM' channels 3, 4, 5 and 5A, all in the 88 to 108 MHZ were allocated to TV. Also to confound the issue, channel 0 (45-52 MHZ) was also allocated for use in Melbourne (Remember the 0-10 Network?)and some Rural/Regional areas (channel 0/4 VHF were allocated to Portland/Wallerawang NSW until 1988 when both UHF and 'aggregation' began)
Australia was the only country in the World to use channel 5A for TV which made it a magnet for DX's but TV unfortunately doesnt lend itself DXing due to its frequency and most transmitters were only low power translators.

Even after the UK went PAL, their TV's along with NZ had slight differences in their tuners compared to ours which meant they would not work here but from what a now retired TV serviceman (English but living in NZ) told me some TV's could be adjusted but not always successfully unlike today where most come with a set up list of countries as long as your arm.

Some of the channel allocations are weird to the like of me like Lithgow NSW had ch's 5 & 6 with 5 Horizontal and 6 Vertical, not only that it from what the local TV serviceman/installer/repairer told me that ch 7 Sydney 'bled' into parts of Lithgow which interfered with Ch 6 and from what I could understand, they had to slightly retune the local translator so it was stronger than the 7 signal was, one thing I do know with Valve TV's, you could not have an antenna system set up for 6 local (vert) and 10 Sydney (Hor) and 2 TV's on the same feed and have one TV on 6 and the other on 10 as it wiped 10 out completely.
Some IF incompatibility from what he told me.

I still have an 80 page booklet published by Hi Gain Antenna of Booloroo (Newcastle) written by Mr W McManus I.R.E.E circa 1979 subtitled 'A Practical Guide for the Novice Installer' that has pictures, diagrams and text for installing local and deep fringe TV antennas and feeds using 300 ohm tape, open line and coaxial cable.

[OSIRUS]

I think in Woolongong WIN used channel 4, & ABC used channel 5 in the mid 1970's

& in Newcastle NBN used channel 3 & ABC used channel 5A in the mid 1970's ....

In the Mid 1970s All Television stations stopped broadcasting for the day about midnight (with a goodnight message from the station)

In the late 1970's channel 10 Sydney started running an all night Movie Marathon on Friday nights ...from memory

[gordon_s1942]

Osirus, I think you will find it was Wollongong WIN4 and the ABC on 5A with Newcastle on NBN3 and ABC5.
Both WIN4 and NBN3 could be received in certain parts of this area and many had whacking great antenna's set up for them as well as Sydney.

Going back even further to around 1960, on a Saturday night ATN 7 had a variety show compered by a Mike Welsh??? which featured a dance troop of very leggy showgirls in full regalia called the Brenda Charles Dancers.
(Dont confuse this compere with Mick Walsh who many years later did the Midday show on TCN.)
The girls wore full headgear and high heels so they near disappeared from the 14 inch B&W TV we had then.

This show started after 10pm and ran for either 60 or 90 minutes followed by a Movie which meant it was close to 1am before the station closed, we thought that was fantastic to have TV that late.
The movies were real B graders but hey, it was on TV.................
On this show one Saturday night, they demonstrated their new toy, it was a 3 inch Reel to Reel tape recorder to record TV video so they recorded the Live show for some 30 to 45 minutes then replayed it back to show how it worked.
Prior to that all these shows were live unless they were recorded on film.

CBN8/CWN6 who held the local license were hard pressed to make 11pm some nights and I swear if a program was a bit longer than they expected, they let the show run while doing any advert breaks and when it was over, you got the Epilog, God save the Queen, 30 seconds of a Test pattern then static........That was in the days when the technician had to be there to start up and shut down the transmitters.

I was still in Katoomba when NBN3 went on air and those who tried to receive the signal had problems as the local Radio cab service interfered with the reception, a a bit like CB radio did in later years, particularly with certain brands of TV's like PYE.

[OSIRUS]

I also found this

Australia

The VHF TV band in Australia was originally allocated channels 1 to 10 - with channels 2, 7 and 9 assigned for the initial services in Sydney and Melbourne, and later the same channels were assigned in Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. Other capital cities and regional areas used a combination of these and other frequencies as available. The initial commercial services in Hobart and Darwin were respectively allocated channels 6 and 8 rather than 7 or 9.

By the early 1960s it became apparent that the 10 VHF channels were insufficient to support the growth of television services. This was rectified by the addition of three additional frequencies - channels 0, 5A and 11. Older television sets using rotary dial tuners required adjustment to receive these new channels. Most TVs of that era were not equipped to receive these broadcasts, and so were modified at the owners' expense to be able to tune into these bands; otherwise the owner had to buy a new TV.

Several TV stations were allocated to VHF channels 3, 4 and 5, which were within the FM radio bands although not yet used for that purpose. A couple of notable examples were NBN-3 Newcastle, WIN-4 Wollongong and ABC Newcastle on channel 5. While some Channel 5 stations were moved to 5A in the 1970s and 80s, beginning in the 1990s, the Australian Broadcasting Authority began a process to move these stations to UHF bands to free up valuable VHF spectrum for its original purpose of FM radio. In addition, by 1985 the federal government decided new TV stations are to be broadcast on the UHF band.

Two new VHF frequencies, 9A and 12, have since been made available and are being used primarily for digital services (e.g. ABC in capital cities) but also for some new analogue services in regional areas. Because channel 9A is not used for television services in or near Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide or Perth, digital radio in those cities are broadcast on DAB frequencies blocks 9A, 9B and 9C.

& this (Comment by Bradely 16 May 2014 at 7:25 PM)

5A was outside the 88 – 108 MHz FM Radio spectrum. I remember the day when ABC Newcastle switched from channel 5 to 5A.

The above is an interesting Website lots of Archives & old TV guides


You may like this one Gordon, TV Guide Saturday 17 March 1962 — NEW SOUTH WALES

The opening night of NSW’s second regional television station, CBN8, serving Orange and the Central Tablelands.




Other Australian TV Guides

[gordon_s1942]

I was still in Katoomba until around May of 1963 so from 1956 till then I saw Sydney TV.
When I moved to here, I had hells own trouble receiving any channels as here was and still is a total 'black spot' for any Terrestrial TV reception.
This is when I learnt all about higain antenna's and MHA's, my first MHA was built into a 10 inch long by 1 inch diameter aluminium tube powered by a 6V lantern battery. The 300 ohm input was one end output and battery lead the other, it was not mounted up the antenna but 'inline'.
The hours I spent winter and summer along with my neighbours trying to improve our reception doesnt bear thinking about and some of the things we did are best left unsaid.
Where I was living the was no viewable Sydney reception so I had to try and get the signal from Orange over 80 miles away, ch 1 and 8 Vertical.
Weirdly I could NOT pick both channels up together but I had to turn the antenna from one direction to another to get one channel at a time and even then it was very poor.
From memory until I moved, I ended choosing the ABC on ch 1 as it was the best reception at that house.
Even now reception varies considerably from house to house so until VAST became available, many had PayTV because you had 13 channels you could see without a screen full of 'snow'.

***********************

Osirus, I read the TV guide and the worst thing is I do remember most of those shows even though I didnt watch the Capt Fortune (was that with Desmond Tester?) as I was nearly 20 and it was aimed at a much younger audience.
If so, thats the one the Bee Gee's first appeared on...............
As for the rest shown on the list, Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.....................

[OSIRUS]

Thanks Gordon that's interesting ......

you are right about Woolongong ABC on channel 5A & Newcastle ABC on channel 5 ....... because I used to get them all (some nights) 5A, 5, 4, 3, 2, & 7, 9, 10 back in the 1970s

I Bought an Antenna Remote Control Masthead motor Rotator Mid 1970's ..... & believe it or not it still works today ...... from which I used to turn the Antenna from inside the house while watching the TV ... to get the best Reception

The Rotator was advertised in a TV Week at the time & was about $99 from memory

[gordon_s1942]

The TV I lusted after had gone by this date by the looks of things. It was a 21 inch Admiral which was the full floor model in a rosewood case, with the tuner in one top corner and perhaps the volume in the other.
Not a cheapie I can assure you.
The 'portable' shown in the advert was similar to our first TV, a Pope Motorola 14 inch with a pair of rabbit ears and as the ad says, being all valves etc, it was fairly heavy to move about.
I had just started work with the Railway (1958) and I was on 3/6 per hour (40 cents?) as a 15 year old, so its easy to see that a TV that cost near $400 in conversion terms was a major purchase.
One local retailer charged about $80 for an antenna, mast, tape and chimney mount in CASH seperately if you bought a TV on HP.

[badass]

In Adelaide I remember our family got a TV in October 1959 just before I was 2 and we only had one channel NWS9 but a few days after a second started ADS7 then in 1960 we got ABC2. I remember a truck came around selling TV’s we looked a two and bought the second one that we looked at. It was the first TV I had ever worked on I was 10 It wasn't the first time it had to be fixed tho. All a long time ago and we’ve come a long way since then with technology.

[gordon_s1942]

I always credit the retailer 'HG Palmer' for mass selling of TV's in the early years (circa 1960?)
HP was always available but the cash deposit was very high, I think about 25% which even today on a $1000 item, is not always easy to find.
HG Palmer had a plan that you could buy a TV for 5 Pound deposit, that was about a weeks wages after Tax for a non skilled worker.
For a 5 Pound deposit, you got a TV then worth at least 2 years wages
The contract however was an 'Agreement to buy'. not the usual 'Hire Purchase'.
With anything on 'Hire Purchase' the item belonged to the seller/agent until paid for, with an 'Agreement to buy' however, the item became the property of the purchaser on signing the contract.
Also the fees were much higher than HP, rather like the fees on todays Credit sales which can hit around 28% per annum.

Similar to what Badass says, all you had to do was ring their telephone number and they came to you even though they had no stores outside of Sydney and I was living in Katoomba back then.

I bought a Stromberg Carlson 21 inch in a console type cabinet from them for which I paid at least 3 times its worth and when it got to the stage where they wouldnt fix it anymore, I managed to get the contract cancelled even though we still owed heaved knows how much because I was under 18 when I signed the contract which was illegal.

Been there, done that and paid the 'Tiller Man' more than once for my ignorance.................so then I rented one from Singer.
The store was the local Singer Sewing Machine and Speedwell Bicycle agent and they rented out TV's, odd combination, eh???

[OSIRUS]

I also remember people used to put a Blue cellophane cover across the Screen of the B&W picture tube ....... to protect your eyes or something ....

but I remember it used to annoy young kids who soon removed it ......


I also seem to remember we had TV insurance ..... that resembled house insurance or Car insurance of the time ...... (the insurance man came to your house to pick up the insurance payments in person)

& The TV Repair Man visited your Home to fix your TV ....... Like a Doctor Home call ..... (does anyone still do this ?)

[gordon_s1942]

The 'Blue Cellophane' was a trick used in fringe areas to filter out the 'snow' on the screen, also we used a piece of silver foil from a cigarette package and wrapped it over the 300 ohm Tape and slide it in either direction to 'Tune' the signal, sometimes with quite visible results at times.

There was also a ground glass screen that was advertised to 'increase your TV picture size' from the then most common 17 inch size to a 21 or 23 inch and in the right light, made it appear that the picture was in colour too.
The problem was that you had to sit directly in front of the TV or the image became quite distorted on the sides.

How many can remember seeing a pair of bicycle wheels on a pole being used as an antenna?
They had to be 27 inch for the best result according to the thinking of the day.

There were books abound with ideas on how to improve your reception with what today might appear crazy but with TV being so new, anything was worth trying.
I read of one town in the USA that was in a hollow and below the beam of the nearest transmitters so the locals banded together, bough a big metal billboard and did the Math to curve it then placed it in the best spot to reflect the signal back into the town area.
In my main town, some put their antennas on the ridge line 200 metres above them and had open copper wire spaced at 4 inches to bring the signal to the house below.

[mtv]

.... There were books abound with ideas on how to improve your reception with what today might appear crazy but with TV being so new, anything was worth trying.
I read of one town in the USA that was in a hollow and below the beam of the nearest transmitters so the locals banded together, bough a big metal billboard and did the Math to curve it then placed it in the best spot to reflect the signal back into the town area.

Although not as necessary with the availability of satellite TV, we still use some of those 'reflective' principles today, but mostly from existing terrain like hillsides or buildings.

The old bike wheel 'antennas' acted a bit like a 'discone' antenna.

There's still a few in existence dotted around the place... but unknown if they are actually in use.

[gordon_s1942]

Most bicycle wheels were mounted side by side irrespective of the TV channels polarity but I do remember seeing one where one wheel was on top of the other.
They are a bit like seeing old large deep fringe VHF antennas on 30/40 foot masts with the ribbon tape now blowing in the breezes, long out of use but not taken down because often the newer UHF antenna is mounted on the mast below them.