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Thread: Battery backup

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    Default Battery backup

    I am installing with my kid a simple reader connected to a controller with a mag lock on his bedroom door.
    The controller is inside a metal box with a battery on the bottom. So if there is no more power in the house, the reader/controller are still working (for a few hours?).
    However, the mag lock is power supplied externally without any battery back up. What happen when there is a power outage? The door will be unlocked?

    I don't see any input on the controller to power the mag lock.

    Should I add a power supply with battery backup? This seems to cost more than a 100$. (Compared to the controller that just cost me 70$ )



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    Quote Originally Posted by chinwa View Post
    I am installing with my kid a simple reader connected to a controller with a mag lock on his bedroom door.
    The controller is inside a metal box with a battery on the bottom. So if there is no more power in the house, the reader/controller are still working (for a few hours?).
    However, the mag lock is power supplied externally without any battery back up. What happen when there is a power outage? The door will be unlocked?

    I don't see any input on the controller to power the mag lock.

    Should I add a power supply with battery backup? This seems to cost more than a 100$. (Compared to the controller that just cost me 70$ )

    Once the mag lock loses power it will be de-energized and not latching anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flighhigh View Post
    Once the mag lock loses power it will be de-energized and not latching anymore
    Is it something that it always used in professional access control?

    I remember my building having the front lobby door and garage gate opened for 2 days.

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    Far too many security installers are familiar with exactly two devices. The electric strike, and the maglock. Despite there being myriad electromechanical devices out there, they solely use those two in a manner wherein if a strike won't work, e,g, a frameless glass door, use a maglock.

    In my experience maglocks on a perimeter door are nearly always a failure waiting to happen.

    The problem as you've seen is that no power = no security. Untrained (or simply clueless) installers need to give consideration to sufficient power backup (typically more than just 1-2 alarm batteries) OR better still some manner of failsafe locking device that won't simply pop open when the power is lost.

    Also, to the old crusties reading this: Dropbolts. They don't suck as much anymore!

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Far too many security installers are familiar with exactly two devices. The electric strike, and the maglock. Despite there being myriad electromechanical devices out there, they solely use those two in a manner wherein if a strike won't work, e,g, a frameless glass door, use a maglock.

    In my experience maglocks on a perimeter door are nearly always a failure waiting to happen.

    The problem as you've seen is that no power = no security. Untrained (or simply clueless) installers need to give consideration to sufficient power backup (typically more than just 1-2 alarm batteries) OR better still some manner of failsafe locking device that won't simply pop open when the power is lost.

    Also, to the old crusties reading this: Dropbolts. They don't suck as much anymore!

    Thank you so much for your answer.

    I have another stupid question :
    If the button -to release the maglock- is broken and there is a fire (but no alarm or anything to open the maglock in case of fire). This is where a "break glass fire emergency exit release" device is necessary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinwa View Post
    I have another stupid question :
    If the button -to release the maglock- is broken and there is a fire (but no alarm or anything to open the maglock in case of fire). This is where a "break glass fire emergency exit release" device is necessary?
    It's not a stupid question. It's a good one.

    The break glass device is a 'failsafe' means of cutting the power to the lock, which as mentioned earlier will immediately allow the door to open. It is not connected to the door controller or any form of electronic control device. Rather, power to the lock is wired between the controller and the maglock via the glassbreak device such that breaking the glass physically cuts all power to the lock.

    The dead-simple way it achieves this makes it reliable in an emergency where fire could have affected wiring, power, electronics or some other electronic system causing it to fail, potentially resulting in a victim being trapped.

    Sounds like your teenager really doesn't want you walking in on him!

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Sounds like your teenager really doesn't want you walking in on him!

    The controller is outside his bedroom... If he thinks he is safe doing whatever he wants, then he is not. But he did not realized this yet. He is just having fun with his Christmas gift.

    I wonder how the emergency exit device works. Because they say "BRAKE GLASS" or something. So that is it? You brake the glass (looks like plastic) with your tiny hand (because looks like smaller than a fist can fit) and then it just cuts the cable behind? (hopefully).
    Last edited by chinwa; 30-01-15 at 02:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinwa View Post
    I wonder how the emergency exit device works. Because they say "BRAKE GLASS" or something. So that is it? You brake the glass (looks like plastic) with your tiny hand (because looks like smaller than a fist can fit) and then it just cuts the cable behind? (hopefully).
    For all intents and purposes that is what happens.

    Despite the name they are seldom made of glass any more (which required replacement every time it was activated, often meaning a door was unlocked for an extended period while someone sourced new glass). They are usually 'resettable'.

    In lay terms, the glass doesn't actually "cut" anything. It is happening electrically. The device simply a switch which is normally closed, however when the element (glass, plastic, whatever) is 'broken' it opens (breaks) the circuit effectively cutting power to whatever was running through it. Some units also send a separate signal via a second set of contacts which can notify an alarm system that the 'glass' has been broken indicating a possible emergency or security weakness.

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    Downunderdan, seems you have a good grasp on these locks, co incidentally today at Coles-Linfox i had to repair an escape gate which actually led into a security cage to get access to perimeter fire exit door. Some one had run a pallet into the base of the gate, bending the bottom. Even tho i got the door disarmed, thinking that would automatically open the lock, it didn't (the handles are rigid) but there was a glass break box on the out side. I ended up jemmying the gate to pop the lock. Is there any way the lock can be freed other than braking the glass ?
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Is there any way the lock can be freed other than braking the glass ?
    yep - run a truck through it

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    Quote Originally Posted by bet2win View Post
    yep - run a truck through it
    Shaped charge, thermic Lance. ..



    Finally got FTTN, 710m line length....

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Is there any way the lock can be freed other than braking the glass ?
    What sort of lock is in use? If it's a magnet and cutting the power will work then just do it. If it's mechanical (I note your reference to it being "freed") and has suffered damage, different story...

    PM me if it's sensitive and I will send you my contact details.
    Last edited by downunderdan; 31-01-15 at 11:29 AM.

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    Why not just install a ups. Small ones are very affordable. I used to work in automotive and Eaton have some very good priced ones last time i checked. I know these guys could suggest others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by controlroom Op View Post
    Why not just install a ups. Small ones are very affordable. I used to work in automotive and Eaton have some very good priced ones last time i checked. I know these guys could suggest others.
    I asked Eaton. Thank you

    I can see that the maglock has a small pin and can be set to either 12V or 24V.
    Are 24V going to give more "holding force" than 12V?

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    Quote Originally Posted by controlroom Op View Post
    Why not just install a ups. Small ones are very affordable. I used to work in automotive and Eaton have some very good priced ones last time i checked. I know these guys could suggest others.
    Most security systems have an effective UPS in the form of their batteries. However what if power's out for a day or the whole weekend? Plus ongoing maintenance and replacement costs. As such battery life will be limited hence my earlier comment about fail-secure considerations on perimeter doors.

    Chinwa, this does not apply to you - it's your kid's bedroom. If the power goes out at your house, he'll just have to live with the threat of his parents walking in on him...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinwa View Post
    I can see that the maglock has a small pin and can be set to either 12V or 24V.
    Are 24V going to give more "holding force" than 12V?
    No, it is a section coil so for 12v there is 2 separate mag coils that are for 12v or depending on that link it could be 24v where they join the 2 coils together in the middle and your connected 24v is at each end of the total coil.

    Would normally be 12v for alarm/access control and 24v for Fire alarm systems. Not always but generally that's the most common use of voltage differences.

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    I am not going to put a battery.
    What I have seen for 100$~130$ only gives 7 hours back up time. It is not worth it.
    Also, the smallest UPS from Eaton cost around 230$ and it also has the same battery rating.

    For our next project we might try to build our own UPS with:
    - a transformer
    - a metal box enclosure
    - a Power Supply / Charger board (similar to the AL624)
    - a battery
    - and probably a few other stuffs.
    I will have a look into that later.

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