M1 Replacement

**xr5adam** · 01-02-15, 10:23 AM

Just after some advice on a panel replacement.

I never wired the site, so please no flaming me,

The site in question has an M1, currently at 160 zones. However more building are being built, and at each expander location, only eight zones are needed, so I am always wasting 8 zones. I think I will be running out of zones in the not to distant future.

I would like to replace the system however I come unstuck when I start looking at what is available, with the cabling I have on site.

The site has a mix of Cat5e and 4 core security cable, to get the M1 working I needed to use two active data bus hubs,

Does any one know of a panel that can use cat5e for its keypad bus wires, can be star wired if required, and can have more than the 208 zones.

**techy21** · 01-02-15, 05:00 PM

Cardax system can wire cat 5 and have no limit keypad and zones etc.m1 can be panel link but not worth it...

**xr5adam** · 01-02-15, 07:12 PM

I know I could use the Smart Living, as that also has panel linking, however I would prefer one panel, with more expansion options....

**romaqld** · 01-02-15, 07:43 PM

You would have the option of the Tecom Challenger or the Inner Range Intigriti system both would be able to deal with the cat5e cable and security cable.

From the sounds it may be security cable from the panel and expanders to the sensors type deal with cat5e wired for the keypad and expanders bus. It is all rs-485 anyway for the M1 or Challenger or Integriti.

Comes down to preference, having used and maintaining all of them I stay away from fresh installs of the M1 but comes down to school or gov dept or corporation that we doing upgrade or install as to Tecom or Inner Range.

I must put out there that I am an inner range certified technician by way of full disclosure.

**downunderdan** · 01-02-15, 08:32 PM

Romaqld,

I was going to make a similar suggestion, except I got the impression (and correct me if I'm wrong) that xr5adam was looking for anything except Concept/Challenger being the most obvious candidates.

That's why Tech21's suggestion of Cardax was so damned hilarious...

**xr5adam** · 01-02-15, 08:44 PM

The M1 was isntalled before I took the site over,

I installed the Active data bus hubs to reduce the bus errors,

Some of the keypads are daisy chained to expanders, some are not, some of the expanders are wired with shielded cable, some are wired with Cat 5e, there is a mix everywhere. I basically can not re run cable for every expander and keypad. One cable is under ground cat 5e that now has a driveway above it.

Most of the expanders are cat 5e - with the final leg to the keypads being 4 core cable.

All detectors are wired 4 core cable, 7/0.20 - which would not matter as I am only thinking of a way to change the controller.

I did not think about Challenger as the bus cable is a mix of cables and thought that it could cause more problems than actually fixing them.

It is not a government school.

**xr5adam** · 10-02-15, 08:40 PM

I am considering a Protege WX controller with ethernet 2 door controllers for the buildings that I can not cable. From all reports I can use a wifi link for the ethernet connections,

Just going to go and buy the WX and try it and see if it will work.

**romaqld** · 12-02-15, 05:12 PM

Can't see any problems with the cable that you say is laid in. Challenger or Concept would be able to handle it without to much problem as long as configured correctly.

Don't take me the wrong way but I think you are trying to over complicate things seeing the problems your having with the M1, I have worked on a couple of very large challenger systems, well for South Western Qld they are. Heading into 300+ zones with many dgp's and 12 plus RAS all on a mix of security cable, sheilded cable, cat5 cable and even dare I say some old solid core telephone cable that connects one of the dgp's back to the controller all without a problem.

As long as you have corrosion free cable, good terminations, can manage your lan voltages across the network, have all the devices correctly identified(this is the biggest problem with some systems that don't care about addressing), the system configured correctly then you will be sweet to go. The biggest problem a mix of cables will bring to the table is your lan voltages which may mean additional power to some things, lan isolators could be needed to ensure voltage drop does not come into play or your runs are to long and 2000m is not a long way when you sit down and work it out.

The biggest issues we have is the dodgy building works and the initial installation that has controller and dgp's actually falling of the plaster walls going into tamper, hanging on by the cables into the box, other than that goes great.