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Thread: Completely Wireless and 3G Alarm systems and licensing.

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    Default Completely Wireless and 3G Alarm systems and licensing.

    A number of completely wireless and 3G connected alarm / home automation systems are appearing on the market. They generally communicate from battery powered detectors on the various legal bands back to a base station which is connected via 3G to a cloud service.

    Some of these report to a monitoring centre, others may be self monitored. Some have battery powered screamers, others don't.
    These are largely aimed at the DIY market, and of course all bets are off there. However, because they have detectors, they are technically "Security Equipment".

    I know a guy who has been asked to install some of these into a residential tenancy. He's not a security installer, but the job is simple. Plug the box into a GPO via a plugpack, put the batteries into the PIRs and screw them to the walls / ceilings as appropriate. I've suggested that he approach this job with caution.

    In Victoria, it's my belief that a person installing these on behalf of a builder, estate agent, etc.) still needs a security installer license incorporating a cabling license (which is patently ridiculous), and a probity check (which is not). I'm not up with the regs in the other states.

    I know it takes regulations some time to catch up with technology, but do any of you have an opinion on the need for a cabling license or security license to install this sort of equipment? I kind of liken it to installing a WiFi router.



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    The installer is employed/contracted to install security equipment... therefore is required to be licensed.

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    1) Much of the 'legal advice' you will obtain on forums such as this is poor and unqualified. That may or may not apply to this comment.

    2) Legislation varies (widely) from state to state and sweeping statements such as MTV's add to the confusion. It is important that you familiarise yourself with the applicable legislation of any jurisdiction under which you (or your 'guy') might find yourself.

    3) In very general terms, there is indeed a difference between a 'DIY'er doing something for themself, and potentially close family, versus someone doing it as a paid service. Some people try to be clever by muddying the waters e.g. charging for the stuff they're licenced/qualified for and 'throwing-in' the rest. In reality, 9 times out of 10 they probably will get away with it, just as tradies doing work for cash do. That does not mean it's right. There are numerous expert witnesses who almost make a living tearing such bodgey work to shreds, after an incident or accident.

    It is just. Not. Worth it.

    On a personal note, I was contemplating a 'drone' for checking out rooftops. As a hobby, that stuff is fine but as soon as you do it for your job, all of a sudden there's various certificates, licences etc. You could argue that it's all bureaucratic bulls**t and I'm not a fan of pointless red-tape. However I have also seen what happens when things go wrong. In any case, if you're doing something *for a living* then you should invest in what is required or don't do it and 'stick to your day job'.

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    In keeping with this theme I have a question about licensing.
    I've been told that Retailers/Staff at Jaycar, Masters and other outlets that sell electronic security equipment don't require a license.
    Is this this the case?, if so how do they escape the regulations?

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    Just the same as retailers can sell electrical equipment, cables, appliances, etc, etc.

    You don't require a licence to sell it... just to install it, etc.

    Yes, it's a broad 'sweeping statement' so DUD may wish to advise you otherwise.

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    I should have been more specific, during the selling process they would inevitably find themselves 'advising' on product suitability. In QLD you require a license to do that. I'm curious where the line is drawn.

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    Pyro.

    You've illustrated my point. It varies from state to state. In NSW for example, the Security Industry Act defines "selling" as a licenceable activity thus:

    (e) selling:
    (i) any (other than at classes of retail outlets), or

    The associated regulation defines "Basic Household or Automotive Security Items thus:
    "basic household or automotive security item" means any of the following:
    (a) an item used for basic household security, including self-installed doors and grilles, self-installed door and window locks, padlocks, portable safes weighing not more than 50 kg or other self-installed electronic or mechanical security items,
    (b) an item designed to minimise the possibility of motor vehicle theft, including a vehicle immobiliser, vehicle alarm or GPS tracking device,
    (c) any other item approved by the Commissioner.
    As I read it, 'Self-installed' would exclude any installation for third-parties including obviously paid work or installation or potentially a commercial premises (not a 'household').

    Other states may have different rules.

    For what it's worth though whilst installers love to bitch about this, as breaches of legislation and general dodginess go, I'd see it as pretty far down the list of problems. Jaycar, Harvey Norman, Bunnings etc. could pay a few bucks and simply get a licence if they were so obliged. 'Problem' solved but wouldn't do a lot to improve the industry overall.

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    I like the fact that some insurance brokers were a lot of my customers are have been requiring compliences be supplied for the alarm and installation and we were happy to school them into exactly what they should be getting from Security installers such as Insurances, workcover, training certs, licenses security and cablers as well as specifics on alarm system as well as documents on the installation such as TCA1. All gets collected and collated put with customers file. Then all the maintence records and testing done through out the year etc. amazing how the handymans are now only doing homes and not commercial in the majority.

    It has also given them a way to make sure when people claim discounts on their insurance for alarm systems installed and monitored they get all this to verify it or they don't get the discount.

    A few years back had one insurance company try and claim on a high risk site where monitored alarm was mandatory for insurance that the alarm was ineffective and they wouldn't pay. Luckily for this customer had all these records, proved it was working, they tried 3 or 4 different ways to refuse paying and in the end they gave up and paid. This is how it all started with the brokers.

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