Cat5 for alarm cabling

[bradj]

Hello, this is my first post (of many more I hope). I have been lurking long enough.

My question is probably a common one, but can I use Cat5 for alarm cabling to PIR's etc. Now, I know that there is an AS for the cable. I will be running all my cables into Krone blocks and I am slightly concerned that the cross-sectional area of the alarm cable will be too thick to punch down into the Krone blocks.

This is for my own home, so I am wiring this home up "to the max".

*edit - I am placing a PIR in every room, and will use a DAS NX system with (hopefully) a SMS module and no back-to-base monitoring (which, incidently, I believe is a big con and waster of money).

[Chimp]

why are you going to use krone block to join your alarm cabling.

[bradj]

why are you going to use krone block to join your alarm cabling.

Hi chimp, because I have Krone blocks setup on frames for my phone, network, balanced audio to 5 rooms, and other data, so I may as well make it all look the same.

Actually, I have just punched down some Garland 4-core MC14 security cable and it works fine.

Is there a common convention for the color code for alarm cable? Red Black Blue White? Which order is preferred?

[mal]

Did this once and once only a long long time ago
Cat5 doesn't like screw terminals it fractures at termination popint
Go straight to the panel one less fault point

[watchdog]

If your going to do it up to the max then do it properly.
Being x telstra, I also did this many years ago & wired the alarm as per exchange wiring principles. IDF & tie cables. I found out that it is not the BEST way. Run cables directly from the devices to the panel with no joins. It can be run in cat 5 & it will work but it is NOT the BEST way to do it.

RED - +ve
BLACK - -ve
Blue & white (or yell & green ) device contacts

Codepad I always use white(yellow) for data & Blue (green) for clock. External siren/strob I use red/black for strobe & blue/white for siren. With Bosch systems the tamper can be wired with the same 4 core you use for the siren/strobe.

[MCman]

Hi ,

FWIW, wiring for security to AusStandards is with the use of multistranded cabling not less than 7 strand x 0.20mm sq Double Insulated i.e. not CAT5
Also Krone blocks are not suitable as any join should be soldered or screw terminal and not both.
There are reasons but its the standard/law so ...

rgds
MCMan

[watchdog]

Hi ,

FWIW, wiring for security to AusStandards is with the use of multistranded cabling not less than 7 strand x 0.20mm sq Double Insulated i.e. not CAT5
Also Krone blocks are not suitable as any join should be soldered or screw terminal and not both.
There are reasons but its the standard/law so ...

rgds
MCMan

Yeah, but the standards only seen to apply to people like you & me who pay for licences till they are coming out your ears

[ol' boy]

Cat 5 prolly doesn't have the cross sectional area needed to run some things.
Plus as mentioned already, Cat 5 is made to be terminated a certain way, doing it any other way is just asking for breaks.

You might think you are saving money..... But at the end of the day when things go wrong, are you?

[keef82]

Hello, this is my first post (of many more I hope). I have been lurking long enough.

My question is probably a common one, but can I use Cat5 for alarm cabling to PIR's etc. Now, I know that there is an AS for the cable. I will be running all my cables into Krone blocks and I am slightly concerned that the cross-sectional area of the alarm cable will be too thick to punch down into the Krone blocks.

There is no need to terminate alarm cabling using a krone block, run stranded 4 core to all your detection points and terminate directly at the panel. I would advise against using cat5 for alarm detectors, as other techs have said.. the cable fractures in the detector when terminated.

This is for my own home, so I am wiring this home up "to the max".

Use the right cable mate, stranded 4 core.

*edit - I am placing a PIR in every room, and will use a DAS NX system with (hopefully) a SMS module and no back-to-base monitoring (which, incidently, I believe is a big con and waster of money).

Back to base is not a "con" / "wate of money" but it is your call. SMS is a very baisc way to monitor your alarm system, you are far better off with a back to base system, with a decent monitoring centre.

I wold much rater a human call me, advising me of what zones are in alarm, how many times, which battery is low, and heaven forbid i hit a duress alarm. Poilce are sent, rather then a "sms" to myself. (keep in mind sms does not have a guaranteed uptime, they can / are / will be delayed"

[Sydneytech]

[quote=bradj;76908]Hello, this is my first post (of many more I hope). I have been lurking long enough.

My question is probably a common one, but can I use Cat5 for alarm cabling to PIR's etc. Now, I know that there is an AS for the cable. I will be running all my cables into Krone blocks and I am slightly concerned that the cross-sectional area of the alarm cable will be too thick to punch down into the Krone blocks.

This is for my own home, so I am wiring this home up "to the max".

*edit - I am placing a PIR in every room, and will use a DAS NX system with (hopefully) a SMS module and no back-to-base monitoring (which, incidently, I believe is a big con and waster of money).[/quote]

Let me say this. A criminal decides you are the target for his next home invasion. He breaks in and threatens your family and you hit the panic button even if it is only on your keypad or maybe just the back door goes in alarm while you are in bed asleep. The balaclava clad crooks force you to disarm your system. With by the way works as you intended and sends you an SMS. Do you think the the home invaders will allows you to read your sms so you can call the cops. Maybe they will think the cops were called when they see the message and decide rip your head off in a panic. Monitoring is not a rip off or a con and it is certainly not a wast of $$.

[Sydneytech]

Did not mean to sort of repeat a post ... Just read what Keefy said after I submitted. So we are thinking along the same lines.

[bradj]

Well, to sum up , thanks for all the advice.

I know first hand that most major Victorian monitoring companies DO NOT send out a patrol and always call police for simple activations like "wrong keypad combinations" - they actually call Triple-0. This a complete waste of police resources and they should be sending their own patrols, AS THE PROMISE in their sales pitch to the customer.

My purpose for SMS is to inform my directly when I am out and then I will return to conduct a check on the home.

If I am home and someone breaks in - so be it. I will look after myself. I don't need to pay for monitoring to have a dumb arse in a monitoring centre pick the phone up and call Triple-0.

Sydneytech, you write quite well, but like many in the security industry, the phrases "home invasion" and "you will be the next target" should be reserved for TV morning advertorials. This industry feeds off fear that "you will be next".... "you will be murdered in your own home, your wife and kids will be shot, your dog will be raped..." And it doesnt take a genius to install one, although many think you need "special" qualifications to do so.

[keef82]

Well, to sum up , thanks for all the advice.

I know first hand that most major Victorian monitoring companies DO NOT send out a patrol and always call police for simple activations like "wrong keypad combinations" - they actually call Triple-0. This a complete waste of police resources and they should be sending their own patrols, AS THE PROMISE in their sales pitch to the customer.

Wow, i don't know what control rooms you are talking about. All grade A1 Monitoring centres will action alarms as per YOUR instructions, you want a patrol, you get it. You want police, they are requested.

My purpose for SMS is to inform my directly when I am out and then I will return to conduct a check on the home.



If I am home and someone breaks in - so be it. I will look after myself. I don't need to pay for monitoring to have a dumb arse in a monitoring centre pick the phone up and call Triple-0.

Dumb Arse monitoring eh ? Enjoy your sms module my friend, dont expect those sms messages to always come through straight away.

Sydneytech, you write quite well, but like many in the security industry, the phrases "home invasion" and "you will be the next target" should be reserved for TV morning advertorials. This industry feeds off fear that "you will be next".... "you will be murdered in your own home, your wife and kids will be shot, your dog will be raped..." And it doesnt take a genius to install one, although many think you need "special" qualifications to do so.

Thats fine my friend, use your cat5, krone terminated with that fantastic module, and dont ask for our advise only to throw it back in our faces.

[keef82]

Funny that banks, commercial premises and other places dont have sms moudles, nor do they call montoring quote "which, incidently, I believe is a big con and waster of money).

[keef82]

No it does not take a genius to install one, but it does take experience to know how to do it right and that my friend takes time. Arrogance will teach you nothing.

Placing a detector in the right place and the wrong place can be as little as 3 feet and can mean a daily false alarm to no false alarm at all.

Cabling!! well cabling my friend is key. Wrong cable, in the wrong place laying over 240 bla bla I can talk all day here again will make the difference between a quality install and a false alarm install.

But then again when it all farks up, a person can always log onto this forum and ask for advice and for some stupid reason we all assist the DIY guy only have half of them get the info they want then disrespect our trade.

Well said.

[intelliGEORGE]

This is for my own home, so I am wiring this home up "to the max".

Are you running your 240v over cat5 too?

[admin]

Guys if he doesnt want back to base monitoring he doesnt have to have it and is quite entitled to say he thinks its a con/waste of money. He is entitled to his opinion.

If I got an alarm , I also wouldnt have it monitored apart from SMS to myself. Its an individual choice based on personal circumstances , probably much like the original poster. The only difference between him and me is he appears to know something about alarms.

Can we skip back to about post 8 and continue from there ?

[bss904]

Must be hard of hearing. Do you want me to say it again ?

[urban_s0ulja]

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[keef82]

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