Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Selling security access control equipment WITHOUT a licence?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Angry Selling security access control equipment WITHOUT a licence?

    Hi there,

    I am the chairman of a building located in Lidcombe, NSW.
    I asked three security companies for a quotation for 150 pieces of HID Prox keyfobs. (with specific site code and card range.)
    It appears that one of these three company is NOT a licenced security company. But they sent me a formal quotation and are 30 % cheaper than the other two...

    I do not accept working with people stealing business from other legitimate companies (that own a security licence).
    So what should I do?

    I had a look at the Legislation, it appears that you are not allowed to carrying on "security activity" without a Licence.
    Under "security activity", I see "(e) selling: (i) any security equipment"
    "security equipment" is defined as "(b) any mechanical, electronic, acoustic or other equipment designed or adapted to provide or enhance security or for the protection of any property"
    Those electronic keyfobs that we use to unlock the front door of the building are here to provide/enhance/protect our property. Am I correct?
    Are electronic keyfobs considered as security equipment? I don't find it clearly stated anywhere.

    If you want more details, please contact me by PM. The more we are against these people the easier it will be to get them sanctioned.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Helene For This Useful Post:

    jk86 (21-09-15)



Look Here ->
  • #2
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    18,345
    Thanks
    5,477
    Thanked 12,054 Times in 5,927 Posts
    Rep Power
    4310
    Reputation
    177399

    Default

    How did you source the company in question that you 'asked' to quote?

  • #3
    Premium Member
    LeroyPatrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    N.E. Vic
    Posts
    16,120
    Thanks
    3,478
    Thanked 4,620 Times in 2,748 Posts
    Rep Power
    1588
    Reputation
    44751

    Default

    Sounds more like a post from a disgruntled supplier......
    XCRUISER HDSR600HD twin sat and terrestrial receiver $OOS *
    XCRUISER HDSR385 Avant - sold out$OOS UltraPlus DVB-T and DVB-S2 tuners $49 Remotes $OOS

  • #4
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    18,345
    Thanks
    5,477
    Thanked 12,054 Times in 5,927 Posts
    Rep Power
    4310
    Reputation
    177399

    Default

    Helene,

    Have you reported your concern to SLED and if yes, what was their response?

  • #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Found on Google "building access key sydney". Top of the results.

    I was thinking of reporting this to the Police. I did not know about the SLED. It looks like they are the one I should be reporting this to. I will do this right now and let you know what they say.

    Thank you

  • #6
    Banned
    watchdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Thanks
    136
    Thanked 869 Times in 514 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    8320

    Default

    Memo to self- make sure all my paperwork is in order if I'm dealing with Helene (joke)

  • #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Roma Qld
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    96
    Reputation
    40

    Default

    I'm glad it looks like someone seems to be interested in reporting the dodgy ones, if that has any effect with SLED we will be yet to see.

    Having seen what I have seen in rural Qld and NSW from companies that are licensed yet do dodgy work it still comes down to experience, skill, training all with licensing to cap of the cake. Anyone unfortunately can get a license and masters license for Security Seller & Installer as there is no training or experience requirements.

    From Helene point of view if your going to do any more install or maintenance on the system you would want to see that each of the installers has an ACMA Cablers license as well as a Class 2 license, its not fool proof but is one step further to ensure that they are dealing with a supplier/installer that is serious about what they do in compliance with the legislation. in this case as it is supply only of HID then that is not directly an issue at this point but maybe into the future and education is key to getting change.

  • #8
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,495
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts
    Rep Power
    322
    Reputation
    4629

    Default

    Helene,

    How did you determine that the company was unlicenced? The Government Licencing System (GLS) is a public register of NSW licences: and is a great tool both for self-compliance activities and identifying shonks.

    However sometimes a business might have a registered business name that's different from the company that is licenced. GLS can miss these if you aren't searching for the right thing, although I believe it's a lot better than it used to be.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to downunderdan For This Useful Post:

    tristen (21-09-15)

  • #9
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    18,345
    Thanks
    5,477
    Thanked 12,054 Times in 5,927 Posts
    Rep Power
    4310
    Reputation
    177399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Helene View Post
    Found on Google "building access key sydney". Top of the results.
    The first Google result I see is just for a card copying service... they don't sell/install security equipment as such.

    In their FAQ:

    Q. Are you able to provide advice on choosing a lock or are you able to install, repair or maintain my lock or security system?
    A. No. To do this would require a Security Licence. We only provide retail key copying which is exempted from requiring a Security Licence.

    and....

    Q. Is it legal to copy my key?
    A. We wouldn't be providing this service if we didn't think so. As we are not solicitors, we are not permitted to provide legal advice. However we can share some advice provided to us:
    Retail Key Copying is exempted from requiring a Security Licence. The law has very little differentiation between duplicating physical keys and electronic keys. Itís much the same as your local hardware store offering physical key copying services; you are simply duplicating an access key of which you are the owner or legal user (Source: )
    The most common HID format that we copy is the standard 26 bit Wiegand format. This is an open format with no encryption (Reference: ). Anyone could buy a RFID reader & software for under $50 and read the building & card number from their key. Then they could easily order a duplicate card from many of the card suppliers by providing them with the building & card number. (Please realise though that many suppliers would have a minimum number of cards that could be ordered eg. 50). As this is a completely open format, no identification or agreement is required. In fact as there are only 256 different building code combinations - a huge number of buildings use the same building code.
    There is a restriction on copying Restricted keys. These are patented restricted keys that have "Restricted" or "Do not Copy" stamped or engraved on them as well as being stamped with the registered unique System Code. We do not copy Restricted keys. There are many restrictions on these keys such as the blank keys having to be kept in a safe at all times when not in use and restrictions on the ability to purchase such keys from the manufacturer or distributor.
    You may wish to review any lease contract or strata laws that are applicable to you.

    From what I can see, they are very up front with what they do and that they are not licensed security equipment providers and are not purporting to be.

    If this is the company you are referring to.... and you do not wish to deal with them.... why did you request a quotation from them?

  • The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mtv For This Useful Post:

    jk86 (21-09-15),tristen (21-09-15)

  • #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    347
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 114 Times in 66 Posts
    Rep Power
    196
    Reputation
    1527

    Default

    Security "Consultant" does not need to be licensed either FWIW

  • #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    42
    Posts
    537
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 81 Times in 63 Posts
    Rep Power
    190
    Reputation
    1544

    Default

    Pretty broad statement. Might want to state what state that applies too.

  • #12
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,495
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts
    Rep Power
    322
    Reputation
    4629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MCman View Post
    Security "Consultant" does not need to be licensed either FWIW
    As a licenced security consultant in NSW for many years, I respectfully disagree.

    That said, there is a difference between a licence and actual qualifications and skills. The former largely being a probity check and very basic assessment of training with no significant measure of underpinning knowledge. Put another way, it's the difference between a licenced driver and a good driver.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to downunderdan For This Useful Post:

    romaqld (22-09-15)

  • #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    347
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 114 Times in 66 Posts
    Rep Power
    196
    Reputation
    1527

    Default

    Its a BS rule, but in QLD at least, you can do sales etc calling yourself a Consultant without needing a licence.
    It is there for those who, for example - make a drawing with the security system on it or a sales person at a security wholesaler whatever.
    There is no definition what the difference is between Consultant and Sales for example.
    Perhaps you should see if it applies in other states ? but that another ridiculous thing why we need state bodies when we should have one rule for all Australia.

  • #14
    Banned

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    tassie
    Posts
    449
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 265 Times in 120 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    5329

    Default

    According to the OP's post, selling a padlock, case, bag, door locks or container with a key lock would require a security licence. Then we have all those on line selling security equipment, security lighting and building/home/vehicle alarms, all security devices.

  • #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    27
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    154
    Reputation
    15

    Default

    You can buy security equipment (DIY alarm systems) from Jaycar, Bunnings (cameras, lights etc) and I'm sure the checkout boy or girl doesn't have a security license, so I see this as no big deal. Of course if you buy cards from these guys and get the wrong ones, it's kind of your lookout.

  • #16
    Senior Member
    weirdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,458
    Thanks
    4,638
    Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,633 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    29602

    Default

    interesting that Helene hasn't been back to let us know the outcome of her 'outrageous' discovery that she seemed so upset about
    maybe she fell of her high horse?

  • #17
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    18,345
    Thanks
    5,477
    Thanked 12,054 Times in 5,927 Posts
    Rep Power
    4310
    Reputation
    177399

    Default

    And maybe it was one of those 'spam' posts just to get people to click on a link?

  • #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    50

    Default

    Thanks for your concern.
    I reported it to the ASIAL as advised.
    Their answer was:
    "The SLED takes seriously allegations of non-compliance and the details you have provided will be examined and appropriate action taken."
    It has been more than a month now. The web page is still here. Nothing has been modified.
    I bet you ask him to come and install a whole security at your office, he'll do it...

  • #19
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,495
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts
    Rep Power
    322
    Reputation
    4629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weirdo View Post
    interesting that Helene hasn't been back to let us know the outcome of her 'outrageous' discovery that she seemed so upset about
    maybe she fell of her high horse?
    Now that she's replied, would you like to borrow a stepladder?

    Helene - the reply you got from SLED is consistent with my experience. They *do* take such matters seriously. That said however, they operate within a fairly tight legislative framework and (perhaps regrettably) are not going to be kicking in doors the next day. They are a slow beast. Nor are you likely to hear the results of any such activity although I understand there are moves to try and allow them to report more openly their enforcement actions.

    I am aware of a few substantial scalps that were claimed, but unless you're very well-read, you won't learn about them.
    Last edited by downunderdan; 31-10-15 at 09:31 PM.

  • #20
    Senior Member
    weirdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,458
    Thanks
    4,638
    Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,633 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    29602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Now that she's replied, would you like to borrow a stepladder?
    what for?
    thanks for keeping us posted Helene, even though you needed some encouragement
    so will you pursue it any further?

  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •