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Thread: NBN VoIP and Alarms

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    Agreed, but we work with the options we have including IP or pstn/uni-v, 2G/3G/4G. Either way, we have something.

    Quote Originally Posted by IPAlarms View Post
    With respect, alarm panel manufacturers have absolutely no control over how the NBN will change over the years. I've seen the same thing happen in the US with MFVN (similar to NBN Uni-V), where they worked with the security industry to get alarms working on the test bench. As time went by and the demand for clearer voice and lower costs increased, things changed and alarm systems started to fail again.



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    I am using the alarm.com platform, all communication is though t a 3G SIM Card. I like this for various reasons;

    - It's more secure (it's very easy to snip the phone line and the MDF before entering a house, knowing the alarm system will not report)
    - It's less installation, wires and equipment to install (for example, a permaconn, or Direct Wireless Unit)

    I personally have used VOIP, and would never use it for a mission critical use such as alarm monitoring.

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    You were obviously happy to put your hands in your pockets to upgrade from a PSTN Dialer (if you had one), but you are in the minority. The majority expect (and rightly so) their alarm system to work over whatever network replaces their old phone line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPAlarms View Post
    You were obviously happy to put your hands in your pockets to upgrade from a PSTN Dialer (if you had one), but you are in the minority. The majority expect (and rightly so) their alarm system to work over whatever network replaces their old phone line.

    I think monitoring through PSTN is foolish. It's a false sense of security for the customer. Phone lines can be cut very easily.

    Any company worth being with, would recommend 3G or data communication over PSTN

    I have worked for a large monitoring provide in Perth. So many times i have received calls " We got cleaned out last night, why didin't you call me"

    NO signals received, snip snip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by decemberrain View Post
    I think monitoring through PSTN is foolish.
    There are hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses monitored over PSTN in Australia who might disagree. All they are asking of the alarm industry is to provide them with a 'no cost' upgrade when they switch to the NBN. I personally think that is a reasonable request.

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    I would do this upgrade for free

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I would do this upgrade for free

    You're obviously one of those companies that care about their customers! I have my security with a small family business in Perth, but monitored at a large control room in VIC. Flawless service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I would do this upgrade for free
    I assume that's if they enable the Uni-V port?

    What about if they don't enable the Uni-V port and they switch to using a VoIP service via the Uni-D port and VoIP ATA/Phone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPAlarms View Post
    I assume that's if they enable the Uni-V port?

    What about if they don't enable the Uni-V port and they switch to using a VoIP service via the Uni-D port and VoIP ATA/Phone?
    A lot of companies are now providing GPRS communicators out for free when a client is swapping to NBN. All they have to pay for is techs time which is minimal 30mins max. Safest way to be monitored without a doubt. Only businesses that I know of that are willing to be monitored IP based are 24hr Gyms which are low risk anyway. IP and or Cloud Based Monitoring will always be the cheap and nasty cost cutting alternative for people who do not really care about there property and generally do not understand the negatives of it because they are blinded by the fact they are saving a few $$.

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    As mentioned in another post I will upgrade a client for Monitoring for free.

    I do not use PSTN or UNI-V or UNI-D for any of my monitored alarms.

    I have even provided monitored customers free panel replacements or new customers free commissioning

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    At one low cost of $99 a month monitoring on a 5 year contract hey haha

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    No No and no

    Its easy to judge without knowing the facts. What I believe I am doing is providing my clients is a service.

    Being a small family business this is something we can do and do do.

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    Just having a joke. A happy clientele leads to a happy business. Good to see there are decent people in the industry not trying to rip everyone off.

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    Fair enough then. I think it is funny ( to me anyway) when I turn up on time and the customer is surprised that someone keeps to the scheduled time. Or the fact that I read my reports and try and pre-empt any service calls.

    There are many installers here in the west who do this which makes my job that little bit easier

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    Only businesses that I know of that are willing to be monitored IP based are 24hr Gyms which are low risk anyway.
    Sorry but I disagree.

    We are responsible for a very large number of these and whilst it is probably reasonable to suggest the risk of theft/damage is minimal, there is a very serious life safety requirement. Unfortunately I am aware of a growing number of gyms which have moved to a 24hr model and had a fairly typical security alarm system installed by a security contractor who had not fully considered the risk management requirements and made a total hash of it. Neither the gym operator nor their security provider had any awareness and it was the blind leading the blind. Will end in tears for some of them, unfortunately.

    IP and or Cloud Based Monitoring will always be the cheap and nasty cost cutting alternative for people who do not really care about there property and generally do not understand the negatives of it because they are blinded by the fact they are saving a few $$.
    Not sure what you're referring to, but terms like "IP" or "Cloud based" can have multiple meanings depending on the context. For example, Permaconn, Emizon, MultipathIP are all entirely "IP" and "Cloud Based" products and highly effective. I would not describe them as 'cheap and nasty' at all.

    The term 'IP' has been bastardised by many within the security industry to refer to wireline internet. So they will describe 'IP/GPRS' meaning an Ethernet and SIM/GPRS connection even though technically they are both 'IP' over different data link layers (look up OSI Model) . I seem to be the only one pedantic enough to grasp this though and I'm a riot at parties...

    So if you're talking about 'ethernet only' where a system is connected via a wired Internet connection and susceptible to line-cut (e.g. the phoneline/ADSL/Cable modem being severed) you might be right. However, if there is redundant Internet e.g. ADSL with a 3G backup router, the alarm communicator may not require its own superfluous wireless backup.

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    You're not the only one Dan, most techs seem certain that IP and GPRS technologies are entirely different.
    Does anyone know how and if VOIP and UNI-V based solutions are considered under the Aust Standards?

    And subsequentlay do insurance companies accept those two types of transmission?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    most techs seem certain that IP and GPRS technologies are entirely different.
    I remember having this discussion with a control room. I left hanging my head.

    While I am not a riot at parties I would be the one at home reading manuals

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Sorry but I disagree.

    We are responsible for a very large number of these and whilst it is probably reasonable to suggest the risk of theft/damage is minimal, there is a very serious life safety requirement. Unfortunately I am aware of a growing number of gyms which have moved to a 24hr model and had a fairly typical security alarm system installed by a security contractor who had not fully considered the risk management requirements and made a total hash of it. Neither the gym operator nor their security provider had any awareness and it was the blind leading the blind. Will end in tears for some of them, unfortunately.
    It was a bit of a rush post but, I should of mentioned I was referring too our overseas Gyms (wasn't expecting people to go over it with a fine tooth comb). Especially those in South East Asia where there are little to no Security Standards and or Liability. Gym owners do not care for Panic/Duress alarms and are simply worried about someone stealing all the gym equipment. Also noticing that Small 24hr gyms in Australia are starting to become similar, as in they are trying to cut costs dramatically as the Gym Business is cut throat unless you have the backing of a major national chain. You can not force people pay for GPRS devices such as permaconn, but they need to be made aware of the downside of using unreliable ethernet IP monitoring modules/devices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Sorry but I disagree.
    Not sure what you're referring to, but terms like "IP" or "Cloud based" can have multiple meanings depending on the context. For example, Permaconn, Emizon, MultipathIP are all entirely "IP" and "Cloud Based" products and highly effective. I would not describe them as 'cheap and nasty' at all.

    The term 'IP' has been bastardised by many within the security industry to refer to wireline internet. So they will describe 'IP/GPRS' meaning an Ethernet and SIM/GPRS connection even though technically they are both 'IP' over different data link layers (look up OSI Model) . I seem to be the only one pedantic enough to grasp this though and I'm a riot at parties...

    So if you're talking about 'ethernet only' where a system is connected via a wired Internet connection and susceptible to line-cut (e.g. the phoneline/ADSL/Cable modem being severed) you might be right. However, if there is redundant Internet e.g. ADSL with a 3G backup router, the alarm communicator may not require its own superfluous wireless backup.
    90% of people you talk to, when talking IP monitoring are referring too ethernet. My post was not directed too you but I was waiting for the "big spiel". If you want to knit pick, GPRS monitoring is practically dead, you should be using the term "HSPA Monitoring" unless of course you're still installing 2G Devices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adro View Post
    GPRS monitoring is practically dead
    Bah. They said the same thing about Securitel and having looked at a few people's websites, apparently that's still being installed... Ahem.

    you should be using the term "HSPA Monitoring" unless of course you're still installing 2G Devices.
    I'll wait until everybody else stops being confused.... Perhaps "cellular" satisfies the KISS principle.

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