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Thread: Smoke alarms.

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    Default Smoke alarms.

    Its probably been discussed here before but id like to know peoples opinion on smoke alarms on security panels.
    Some companies ask the client to sign a waiver to acknowledge they are only for indication purposes and not a legal fire system as such.

    Is this the best way to go? Does anyone not install them at all for the above reasons or is this a non issue ?



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    This is my understanding of the situation & may not be totally correct. At some stage in the past the regulations changed in such a way as to make most security system smoke detectors non compliant. I think it was either because there was no on-board sounder or no on -board secondary power or a combination of both. It was determined that a fire would disable both main & backup power as they both were delivered over the same cable. At the same time Bosch discontinued the availability of wireless smoke detectors (presumably because of the lack of on-board sounder)
    There are now a number of security smoke detectors that are compliant (Brooks etc) and as far as I know can constitute a legally compliant fire detection system (at domestic level) I know Chubb used to get a signature authorising them to call the fire brigade and that the owner would pay any costs in the event of a false alarm. The advantage of a smoke detector on the security panel is that the result is a bit more effective than the mozzie squeak that comes from a $6 Kmart smoke detector especially if there is no one at home to hear it.

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    Yeah Chubb still use the fire waiver form. If the client doesn't sign it then Chubb will only call contacts/dispatch patrols.

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    The Brooks is probably compliant due to the onboard 9v battery but never really seen the point in this as the panel 12v supply has battery back up.
    Personally not a fan of the Brooks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zhaktronz View Post
    Yeah Chubb still use the fire waiver form. If the client doesn't sign it then Chubb will only call contacts/dispatch patrols.
    The waiver will need to be signed or no action will be taken on input alarm as it will be undefined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake80 View Post
    The Brooks is probably compliant due to the onboard 9v battery but never really seen the point in this as the panel 12v supply has battery back up.
    Personally not a fan of the Brooks.
    But fed over the same cable so no redundancy

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    I guess the redundancy in a fire system is the loop circuit ?

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    The BCA for Standard for smoke alarms as well as NSW and QLD, at least, legislation requires that smoke alarms in a domestic situation must be Standards compliant. The Brooks as noted have some Dry contact 12v/240v Smoke alarms with 9v backup battery. These can be used for Smoke Alarms.

    They must have an in device backup battery if they are 240v or 12v as they are considered the primary form of power.

    The one thing to note is that the invoice will generally be directed at the person making the call as they are the ones legally requesting and therefore obliged to pay for the service should it be a false alarm which is why CHUBB and I suspect anyone who puts smoke alarms onto Security Systems would get signed if they are to call Fire Brigade or just call contacts/patrols.

    I have put them onto panels generally in new houses under construction in both ways. Some people like to know if there is a problem such as a fire whilst they are away and the additional noise from the Security System under Smoke Alarm activation is their additional piece of mind when home. Others are happy to sign up to have Fire Brigade called every time and they sign to say they are bound to pay the charges should it be a false alarm.

    This is one that fits everything required for BCA and Legislation. There are others.
    BROOKS MODEL: EIB186P
    Connects to 12VDC Security Control Panels
    ActivFire Listed to AS 3786
    Meets BCA 2005 Specification E2.2a requirements
    9V Alkaline Battery back up
    Alarm output changeover dry contacts 24VDC 1 amp


    Fire Alarm Systems have a requirement for many different things one of which is Fire Rated Cable which Security Systems don't that is the BIG difference why they can cable up the way they do and not require the battery backup in each device as domestic systems do.
    Last edited by romaqld; 15-12-15 at 02:31 PM.

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    So legally if we can only install one of those two smoke alarms what's the consequence for installing other smokes that are not compliant ?

    By the way the red single pair fire cable you see run on fire systems isn't fire rated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake80 View Post
    So legally if we can only install one of those two smoke alarms what's the consequence for installing other smokes that are not compliant ?
    "Legally" you are asking in the wrong place... Google and Associates is a shitty source of legal advice.

    I've had a personal exposure to a similar matter where a building had a fully compliant fire system, detection, doors/signs/extinguishers etc. However being quite safety minded, they put in a whole lot of additional measures, mainly fire extinguishers. These weren't subject to the regular and costly testing regime, but were *arguably* over and above it.

    Then the fire happened and the finger pointing and insurer evasion began. Can't say which way the ball landed as this will take years to sort out. However as anyone who's been exposed to the justice system knows, commonsense etc. can often be set aside depending on what the lawyers and judges say. Even when you're completely right, it can be very costly.

    Regrettably this leads to the unintended consequence of people doing the 'bare minimum' to be 'compliant' but not necessarily best-practice. A shame, really.

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    I agree with not obtaining legal advice from a forum but no point re inventing the wheel when some of you guys are well established running your own business and may have a clear understanding of this topic. No drama just interested to know people's views.

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