Australia losing friends!

**Uncle Fester** · 23-09-21, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

Yes that was my point!
and not ScoMo the great leader who can do everything himself...NOT!
I doubt Biden can fix this mess now but he is trying at least, the only man with experience on the western side of this planet, at least the other side might see him that way and listen somewhat.

Well Biden is smart enough to get France back at least:

I also noted yesterday in the TV news that both Biden and China do NOT want war but I think Dutton and Co. do not (want to) notice that.

**lsemmens** · 23-09-21, 11:10 AM

I suspect that I hear this on the radio in the car yesterday, or it may well have been back up thread somewhere...but... Farce (france) HAS missed numerous deadlines and has had cost blowouts without a nut being turned on ANY sub, so, their contract has been broken AFAIAC. Without reading said contract, we cannot say how, or why, we should/not break it or why we pay a penalty for breaking it.

As to SCOMO announcing to the world that there should be an inquiry into COVID, again, how do we know that quiet conversations did not occur beforehand with nothing forthcoming. Like Wage negotiations that go nowhere, until the world hears about it because our breweries have all gone on strike.

**Uncle Fester** · 23-09-21, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by lsemmens

As to SCOMO announcing to the world that there should be an inquiry into COVID, again, how do we know that quiet conversations did not occur beforehand with nothing forthcoming. Like Wage negotiations that go nowhere, until the world hears about it because our breweries have all gone on strike.

Because he would have proudly announced that the other countries were not forthcoming and therefore had no other choice but to go alone particularly after the repercussions of the 'cold war' he started with China because of that.

Seriously, aren't you aware that Trump would have been be allover a suggestion to do an independent collaborated investigation of the "China flu" ?

**Uncle Fester** · 23-09-21, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by lsemmens

I suspect that I hear this on the radio in the car yesterday, or it may well have been back up thread somewhere...but... Farce (france) HAS missed numerous deadlines and has had cost blowouts without a nut being turned on ANY sub, so, their contract has been broken AFAIAC. Without reading said contract, we cannot say how, or why, we should/not break it or why we pay a penalty for breaking it.

Again if that were actually true, it would have been the Government's responsibility to publicly announce that to the taxpayer and everyone, then openly attempt negotiations until it comes clear to all that France was the one who were not willing to fulfil the terms of contract.

Not just simply cancel from one day to the next in a big rush, like some bogan.

**wotnot** · 23-09-21, 02:50 PM

**enf** · 23-09-21, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

That would all make sense if the USA deal would be a sooner delivery but the opposite seems to be the case.
And doesn't anybody realise that it took only 3 years to build the Titanic in 1912, so why does it take 20 years for the USA or France to build a sub in the 21st Century?

2040 is never going to be 'in time' as technology, including war tech is developing exponentially.

Our dumb gov is being screwed all over, just lease existing subs and cancel all the other deals.

I thought you were an engineer. Jeeez, these anti scomo rants are getting tiresome. I would imagine that there is a slight difference between slapping a ship together with suspect steel and rivets, as opposed to an exacting machine that is made of titanium and must pass a squadrillion stringent tests in the process. Along with uber complex software and hardware requirements as well as evolving technologies. These things are nukes and must be right.

I would imagine sleepy Joe was happy to have anyone to deal with him atm. When he's awake that is. Good ol Nodoze! Works every time.

As I said, this is 40 years too late. But it's better than waiting endlessly for a French steel condom that nearly doubles in price before anything substantial has been done. F*ck the French. They conned Abbott and the Ghost into a crock and now that something is done about it you are STILL whining. We've done more to defend the French over the years than they have ever done for us.

Whats the old saying? Aaaah the French. They're there when they need you

**Uncle Fester** · 23-09-21, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by enf

I thought you were an engineer. Jeeez, these anti scomo rants are getting tiresome. I would imagine that there is a slight difference between slapping a ship together with suspect steel and rivets, as opposed to an exacting machine that is made of titanium and must pass a squadrillion stringent tests in the process. Along with uber complex software and hardware requirements as well as evolving technologies. These things are nukes and must be right.

I would imagine sleepy Joe was happy to have anyone to deal with him atm. When he's awake that is. Good ol Nodoze! Works every time.

The US have been building nuclear powered subs for 60 years now, they are not re-inventing the wheel here.
It is likely we will get the Virginia Class with a few modifications. It is not a new design, it is already in commission.
They have been capable of building 2 of them per year, if funding allows.
Enjoy:

...and those sleepy Joe comments are even more tiresome.
He has been the best they had for years.

**wotnot** · 23-09-21, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by enf

Whats the old saying? Aaaah the French. They're there when they need you

Just FTR as it were, I found that article I linked to, >after> my previous speculation regarding contracts of that nature, and the fact one party (AU) typically cannot cancel/withdraw from said contracts on a whim, or a large dose of buyer's remorse -- you need plausible cause and reason to initiate termination of contract ...and if any/all of the failures to deliver on contract from the French side mentioned in that article are real/true, that'd be the substantive justification used.

I read somewhere when the French foreign minister was asked why had they recalled the AU and US ambassadors, and not the UK member, and the answer was something akin to "Oh, we know what the UK are like, always being the opportunist, we don't have to worry about them", and my knee-jerk reaction is one of "you cheeky little prat" ...all cuddly with your EU 'friends'...I'd be just as cheeky back, and suggest he's gunna need to treat aussies just like the poms, because we're of the same stock =) For mine, it's a bit of a stand-out the UK is exempt from their apparent wrath, very telling.

**enf** · 23-09-21, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

...........................................

...and those sleepy Joe comments are even more tiresome.
He has been the best they had for years.

When he's awake maybe. But that's not saying much either is it.

**Uncle Fester** · 23-09-21, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by wotnot

I read somewhere when the French foreign minister was asked why had they recalled the AU and US ambassadors, and not the UK member, and the answer was something akin to "Oh, we know what the UK are like, always being the opportunist, we don't have to worry about them", and my knee-jerk reaction is one of "you cheeky little prat" ...all cuddly with your EU 'friends'...I'd be just as cheeky back, and suggest he's gunna need to treat aussies just like the poms, because we're of the same stock =) For mine, it's a bit of a stand-out the UK is exempt from their apparent wrath, very telling.

All going in circles here.
Macron can't treat aussies like Poms, we are not EU.

USA is too big. If you take your ambassadors away then you are an enemy of the USA.
USA only has allies or enemies. Despite the nationalistic pride of the French they have figured that one out.

So that leaves us aussies who can't talk properly. I mean it, our communication skills suck. The only politician who could actually talk properly was our much hated Rudd.
Anyhow the French simply don't understand us or we them.
People who misunderstand each other generally don't get on well, or better in aussie: we pissed them off.
Not because we made a better deal with the USA but the way we dumped them.

Who needs the French you all say?
Again I am going around in circles. No, WE don't need them, if we now have a closer military alliance with the USA/UK.

However Europe is allegedly our second largest trading partner, still after China but China does not want us.
French will do all in it's might and power in the EU to convince the EU to block trade with AU.
They will likely succeed because they will show them that we are not trustworthy and do not commit to climate change, which brings me back to my OP.

**Reschs** · 23-09-21, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

The only politician who could actually talk properly was our much hated Rudd.

You totally lost what little credibility you had with that one.

**Uncle Fester** · 24-09-21, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Reschs

You totally lost what little credibility you had with that one.

LOL, yes that response was expected

**wotnot** · 26-09-21, 01:21 PM

**wotnot** · 29-09-21, 08:54 PM

This just keeps on giving - last reports still saying the french won't even accept communication from the AU govt at all, which actually reminds me of the daughter of someone I know throwing a hissy fit...else hands over ears, repeating loudly LaLaLaLaLa and saying (in Francaise) "I can't hear you" ....hahaha...it's parliamentary question all over again, just the next level up (global not national =)

Then I saw this today, and I think it's not so much AU losing friends, it's more about who we call our friends ;

l'ami de mon ennemi n'est pas mon ami?

Or am I being too kind, and it should be the friend of my enemy is also my enemy?

edit: then when you look at what forms the majority of what AU exports to FR, you gotta wonder how much of that ends up in aerospace/avionics, as parts airbus move into CN for assembly...

**Uncle Fester** · 30-09-21, 12:56 PM

Would be kind if you provided actual click-ables, like I do.

As I have said numerous times, if we lose it with France we lose Europe and THAT will hurt even if most of you don't want to get it.

Another well spoken and highly disliked former Australian PM has actually managed to speak to Macron:

If he will be able to achieve anything? I doubt it with stubborn stupid not even going to bother with an apology, pretending France won't answer his call.

So far it seems the stubborn stupid will not even go to Glasgow and the said much hated former Liberal PM, who only did what he was told to do by his party with the sub deal back then, will 'represent' us:

Sad really! Not even one Australian politician wants to go. Turnbull is going because of his involvement with FMG (actually FFI) green steel projects and hydro projects.

Again I am NOT opposed to the nuclear deal. I would even accept nuclear subs with nuclear weapons.
It is merely the clumsy way it has been dealt with that is going to cost us, unless somebody with a brain can fix this on both points.

**lsemmens** · 30-09-21, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Fester

Again I am NOT opposed to the nuclear deal. I would even accept nuclear subs with nuclear weapons.
It is merely the clumsy way it has been dealt with that is going to cost us, unless somebody with a brain can fix this on both points.

Agreed! I am not really against nuclear power here. We have one of the most stable environments of the western world, both geologically and politically. Even the population is only slightly mad, except me and thee, and of thee, I am unsure.

**Al Bundy** · 01-10-21, 10:37 AM

Turnbull, hell of a lot of integrity he would have after destroying whatever chance Australia had of having a half decent NBN with his cut down bastardised version, I think he would be the last person anybody would consider to be trustworthy in any type of deal after that monumental “fu@kup”.
I can see no reason whatsoever he has any right to speak out about anything Morrison says or does, just how short is a politicians memory, and more to the point how short does he think the public’s is?

**enf** · 01-10-21, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

Turnbull, hell of a lot of integrity he would have after destroying whatever chance Australia had of having a half decent NBN with his cut down bastardised version, I think he would be the last person anybody would consider to be trustworthy in any type of deal after that monumental “fu@kup”.
I can see no reason whatsoever he has any right to speak out about anything Morrison says or does, just how short is a politicians memory, and more to the point how short does he think the public’s is?

Delusion, pure delusion on his part....not to mention blind hatred. I fail to understand why ANYONE would believe anything he says...truly.

This from a rag a day or two ago....

**wotnot** · 01-10-21, 12:59 PM

**Ah-Those-Old-Days!** · 01-10-21, 09:37 PM

Regarding 'China's recent stance and fuming rhetoric towards Australia, since our new fabrication deals between Aust, U.K., and the U.S. I could see
major dramas coming, since China's clamp-down on Hong-Kong, and their responses to Australia re: 'daring' to look into this Covid outbreak/start !!

It doesn't take Einstein to foretell what/with-whom the next Global conflict is going to entail, unfortunately... (China LOVES the word, 'PUNISH' too...)